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When Is IP Theft OK?

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hash.era
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IP Theft - Not OK at all
hash.era   2/26/2013 10:41:53 AM
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I dont think IP Theft is OK at any point plus it should not be encouraged too. IP thefts might be seen as a smaller set of entity which might not cause that much of a trouble but it can lead to other issues indirectly and will not be able to figure out from where it occured. The root cause will not be clear in such a scenario.

TaimoorZ
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Re: IP Theft - Not OK at all
TaimoorZ   2/26/2013 5:00:04 PM
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@hash.era: Most of the people would agree that IP theft is not okay. But the problem is how to convince the Chinese about it. Their mindset and culture does not impose any restrictions on this and neither are the laws strong enough to discourage it.

hash.era
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Re: IP Theft - Not OK at all
hash.era   2/27/2013 10:37:30 AM
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Taimoor: Forget about convincing the chineese since its impossible. They always think that whatever they decide is true and all those who reject it are as enimies. I have given up on convincing any chineese

pocharle
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Re: IP Theft - Not OK at all
pocharle   2/28/2013 3:54:31 PM
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"IP thefts might be seen as a smaller set of entity which might not cause that much of a trouble"

That's always easy to assess when you're not the original creator. Many people think thaty they're just borrowing the content and that makes it OK because no one is losing anything.

But if you borrowed someone's car without them permitting you to take the keys, it would be categorized as theft.

hash.era
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Re: IP Theft - Not OK at all
hash.era   3/6/2013 11:46:39 AM
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pcharles: True but for how much do we have to do it ? I dont think its practical.

pocharle
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Re: IP Theft - Not OK at all
pocharle   3/11/2013 11:21:58 AM
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I'm not saying it has to be done.

But it is. Imitation is the greatest form of flattery.

It's also a way to minimize risk in the product development cycle.

But there's a thin line between imitation and blatant infringement.

hash.era
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Re: IP Theft - Not OK at all
hash.era   3/14/2013 12:58:21 PM
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@Pocharles: I don't think limiting can be done that easily plus limiting towards one area or two might be misleading as well. You need to be open and ready for anything.  


pocharle
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Re: IP Theft - Not OK at all
pocharle   3/20/2013 12:30:55 PM
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From whose perspective? The original creator or the copier?

hash.era
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Re: IP Theft - Not OK at all
hash.era   3/26/2013 12:42:26 PM
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@Pocharles: The original creator of course.

pocharle
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Re: IP Theft - Not OK at all
pocharle   3/26/2013 10:56:08 PM
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gotcha. OK understood

Wookey
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Re: IP Theft - Not OK at all
Wookey   3/13/2013 9:59:34 AM
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Right, but whilst stealing a car is indeed theft, copying data is not theft. And IP is not property. Trying to treat copying and infringement as 'theft of property' is just nonsensical. Theft requires the original owner to have been deprived of their property, but with copying  they always still have it. It's not the same. It's a different area of law and has different effects.

The correct question to ask is 'When is unimpeded dissemination of information more effective than a market in information which itself generates revenue but is much slower and less efficient'? The answer probably depends on circumstnaces, but on the whole the freely-transferrable infomation scenario will bring a higher overall benefit. We've seen this in the steady rise of free software, and to a lesser degree open hardware, developments over the last 20 years.

pocharle
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Re: IP Theft - Not OK at all
pocharle   3/20/2013 12:30:16 PM
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So you're saying that IP law is unnecesary?

Wookey
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Re: IP Theft - Not OK at all
Wookey   3/20/2013 1:10:54 PM
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@pocharle: How did you manage to read that into my post?

I'm saying that copyright infringement is different from theft, and requires different laws. I'm also saying that restrictive application of copyright and patent law often does more harm than good. Going round shouting 'all copying is theft' is just wrong, and very shortsighted. Patent law, in general, and certainly in the area of software does _much_ more harm than good. The entire sphere would benefit from a return to the situation prior to 1991 where software was simply not subject to patent law, because it's maths, and because it's _also_ already subject to copyright law.

Copyright in software has its uses, although the most useful use is to enable copyleft. In general everyone is much better off if they have access to the software that runs on their machines such that they can fix it or change it. So long as the software on your machines is owned by someone else you have ceded control, and if that company goes bust, or changes things in ways you don't like, you have no redress. These are good things to avoid, and vital to avoid in some circumstances.

pocharle
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Supply Network Guru
Re: IP Theft - Not OK at all
pocharle   3/20/2013 1:24:52 PM
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I wasn't trying to push it to the limit. Just asking a quick question to see your answer.

I understand where you're coming from and appreciate that you are not thinking like the software patent troll that control the industry as wek speak.

TaimoorZ
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Supply Network Guru
Internal threat
TaimoorZ   2/26/2013 5:02:26 PM
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@Brian: While the Chinese may not find anything against copying a design from abroad and manufacturing it on their own, what about the scenario that's other way round. What if companies abroad start copying designs that were originally produced in China? Would that have any effect in improving IP laws within the country?

Brian Fuller
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Re: Internal threat
Brian Fuller   2/26/2013 5:51:26 PM
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@taimoorz, I hadn't thought of that. It certainly would work in the long term. What country do you think will be the "next China" that might have that effect on China? 

Interesting point... 

t.alex
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Supply Network Guru
Re: Internal threat
t.alex   2/26/2013 8:52:41 PM
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I am curious how the law works when internal chinese companies are copying each other.

 

 

Brian Fuller
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Re: Internal threat
Brian Fuller   2/26/2013 9:45:58 PM
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@t.alex, that's a good question (and a humorous one at the same time!). 

 

t.alex
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Supply Network Guru
Re: Internal threat
t.alex   3/4/2013 10:00:38 AM
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Brian, 

I did not realize it was humorous :-) The answer probably is they would fight without law.

TaimoorZ
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Supply Network Guru
Re: Internal threat
TaimoorZ   2/27/2013 8:00:39 PM
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"I hadn't thought of that. It certainly would work in the long term. What country do you think will be the "next China" that might have that effect on China? "

@Brian: It doesn't have to be a "next China" type of country. Can be any country which uses a Chinese developed product and comes up with its own copied version. I wonder how the Chinese will respond to that. 


AzmatMalik
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Production Synthesizer
Re: Internal threat
AzmatMalik   2/27/2013 10:40:26 PM
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This situation would arise only if the next copier was also significantly cheaper than China; not very likely for some years.

TaimoorZ
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Supply Network Guru
Re: Internal threat
TaimoorZ   2/28/2013 5:16:56 AM
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"This situation would arise only if the next copier was also significantly cheaper than China; not very likely for some years."

@AzmatMalik: The recent trends in manufacturing have shown that China is no longer the low-cost producer in the world. Other countries have begun to match China's costs of production. A lot of companies are also looking to move the manufacturing back to their own countries. So I think a foreign company copying China's product is a possibility.


_hm
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Comity of nations
_hm   2/26/2013 6:44:05 PM
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It is very difficult to read when internate espionage is atributed to only China. That is not fair by any standard. All countries do that and US may be defacto leader in internate espionage (but they mainly employ it for geo-political gain and control). There should be more trust and develop comity of nations.

Brian Fuller
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Re: Comity of nations
Brian Fuller   2/26/2013 7:45:51 PM
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@_hm good point, as always... in case you didn't see it, Bruce Gain expanded on this idea last week: http://www.ebnonline.com/author.asp?section_id=1162&doc_id=259235

prabhakar_deosthali
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Supply Network Guru
re:
prabhakar_deosthali   2/27/2013 12:06:10 AM
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If China is stealing IPs from US it is a good sign that the Chinese still believe that countries like US still have better IPs than what they could design.

The trend may reverse in a few years when Chinese will start outsamrting the developed nations by having better IPs created and the roles of other counries will reverse where the countries like US will be tempted to steal the IPs developed by the chinese.

 

 

 

garyk
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Inventory Controller
When Is IP Theft OK?
garyk   2/27/2013 3:47:18 PM
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Quit tring to be politically correct. The Chinese know more about the US culture than we do!!!!!!!!!!!

Hospice_Houngbo
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Supply Network Guru
Copying between colleagues may be fine
Hospice_Houngbo   2/28/2013 11:58:53 AM
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You can share IP information with your friends or work colleagues, but copying other companies/people' work without their consent is theft. We can't always prevent IP theft, but I don't think it should be "legalized".

Mr. Roques
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Supply Network Guru
Re: Copying between colleagues may be fine
Mr. Roques   2/28/2013 4:11:20 PM
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Well, the Japanese did a lot of that back in the day, they were so smart that they just took a good product and made it better. Was it illegal? I'm not sure they went as far as China but the results are there, its better for innovation.

Any time we standarize, we are settling and it doesn't help innovation.



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