Counterfeiting: The Worst Is Yet to Come

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ddeisz
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Production Synthesizer
no DLA in GIDEP in 2012
ddeisz   10/8/2012 2:51:55 PM
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As of today, there are still no GIDEP reports by DLA for all of 2012.

Dan Deisz

Rochester Electronics

Barbara Jorgensen
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None from DLA?
Barbara Jorgensen   10/8/2012 4:23:20 PM
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Dan: Interesting. That could mean there were no counterfeits; or that there weren't any reports (to date). Maybe they just wait until the end of the year to tally them up?

ddeisz
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Production Synthesizer
Re: None from DLA?
ddeisz   10/8/2012 4:32:16 PM

My only problem is that if DLA says they are reporting into GIDEP, where are they? It might be worth a follow-up to whoever said they are reporting into GIDEP because it isn't there. GIDEP reporting amounted to 3 suspect counterfeits reported for all of September. Somebody is making GIDEP out to be more than it is. While the IHS number doesn't come with any backup data that allows investigation, I would think the GIDEP number should be bigger.

The IHS and/or ERAI numbers are being thrown around a lot. It makes for exciting press. Exactly how are those numbers derived? Has anyone really investigated the source of that data? Its' really easy to throw around the numbers, but who is looking at the data?

Dan

 

Barbara Jorgensen
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DLA and GIDEP
Barbara Jorgensen   10/8/2012 4:57:25 PM
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Good points Dan. I'll admit that trying to backtrack through the numbers got confusing (so it must be a nightmare for real statisiticians.) First, I checked to see where IHS got the numbers.  Here's what it says:

Among all reporting entities in IHS figures, sources include the Government-Industry Data Exchange Program (GIDEP) and ERAI.  Consistent with 2011, ERAI represents the significant majority of reports made - 88 percent of year-to-date 2012 totals.

So then I looked back on Tam Harbet's GIDEP story and found that most GIDEP reports came from "industry" not from the DLA. (At least not in 2009 and 2010). Here's what Tam reported (in addition to the 202 incidents from DLA.)

(Contractors weren't very good at reporting either -- of the 1,800 cases of suspected counterfeits identified during the Senate investigation only 271 GIDEP reports were filed.)

So most of the data comes from ERAI. I'm not certain how ERAI tabulates its data. But let's add the DLA's 202 incidents with the other 271. That's 473 incidents out of the 1,800 or so reported. I'm not sure what to make of that, but it seems pretty low for a problem that requires an Act to address its shortcomings.

SP
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Supply Network Guru
Counterfeiting: The Worst Is Yet to Come
SP   10/9/2012 4:52:54 AM
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I think its beneficial for the whole industry if the counterfeiting cases get reported well and get addressed well. Reaching the closure is equally important. We all have agreed that counterfeing happens and its a problem. Its something like piracy problem, its there many people make their living out of it but then it has to stop. I guess if all the consumers make a single voice against counterfeiting, do not accept the counterfeited product/components because as long as there is demand and people are buying, this business will continue.

Adeniji Kayode
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Re: Counterfeiting: The Worst Is Yet to Come
Adeniji Kayode   10/9/2012 9:22:29 AM
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@SP,

One of the factors that encourages the growth of counterfeited products is ignorant of most consumers, some don,t even know how to identify the original product.

Moreover, counterfeits also come very cheap when compared to the original.

These two factors may not allow for consumers to have one voice.

In some cases and places, the so called " counterfeits" tends to be available more than the original products and sometime seems to solve some immediate problem

though there will always be consequences.

ddeisz
User Rank
Production Synthesizer
Re: DLA and GIDEP
ddeisz   10/9/2012 9:57:19 AM

In looking at just 2012 GIDEP data (where the totals should be more), there are no GIDEP entries for DLA and less than 100 suspect counterfeit reports TOTAL for non-passive semiconductors this year. When it gets reported that counterfeit is growing and the gut feel is that the numbers are getting larger, is everything based on ERAI data? That means we have reported growth in counterfeit with no specific and actionable data to back it up. We have what amounts to emails, feelings, and he-said-she-said data.

When DLA reports that they are making GIDEP entries and yet there are none for 2012, I view this as a problem.

The ERAI data needs to be more detailed and actionable in my opinion. Stating growing numbers reported in anonymity does nothing for the end customers.

Dan Deisz

Rochester Electronics

Kristal Snider - ERAI
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Re: None from DLA?
Kristal Snider - ERAI   10/9/2012 3:04:28 PM
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This discussion involved a summary reported in an IHS news release.  The purpose of such news releases is to briefly highlight key market trends.  These trends are drawn from very comprehensive commercial databases and tools.  For instance, IHS and ERAI have partnered on an offering which provides granular details about each counterfeit investigation, complaints made against a part, part numbers and descriptions, photos and documents of non-conformance, inventory information such as date code/lot code, and other detailed part property information.  In addition to the comprehensive data itself, both IHS and ERAI have integrated tools to help companies analyze, manage, and act upon part and supplier risk within critical business processes.  Together, these play a vital role in the counterfeit detection and  avoidance procedures implemented by many organizations serious about counterfeit risk mitigation.

This news release highlighted the trend of an ongoing threat from counterfeits based on incidents reported in the marketplace.  While the majority of incidents summarized by IHS were attributed to ERAI, the figures included other entities in addition to ERAI.  As indicated in the news release, IHS combines data from several sources into a single repository in order to facilitate research, report industry insight, and provide analytical tools to be used for counterfeit detection and avoidance. 

At ERAI, each counterfeit incident reported involves thorough investigation which consists of reviewing purchase orders, invoices, test reports, email communications, and other verifiable documentation.  A report has never been generated based on "feelings", "assumptions", or "he-said-she-said".  No single incident is considered confirmed (nor supplied to IHS) that does not undergo this rigorous ERAI due diligence and validation.  Specifically, this eliminates subjectivity and erroneous claims.  These objective and stringent procedures are among the reasons why ERAI is widely-supported within industry as the news release conveyed statistically.

I am happy to take anyone seeking a better understanding of the comprehensiveness and objectivity of ERAI's data, processes, and procedures on a virtual walkthrough of our capabilities.

Barbara Jorgensen
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Re: None from DLA?
Barbara Jorgensen   10/9/2012 3:23:38 PM
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Hi Kristal: Thanks so much for the breakdown. I think the industry appreciates how difficult it is to cull through word of mouth and get to reliable and meaningful data. (I don't envy any organization the task.) From my POV, I find it worrisome that we read--for whatever reason--about the dangers of counterfeits in mil/aerospace equipment and then see so little data from DLA and/or GIDEP. I'm sure there are a lot of reasons for that, including some of the ones we have noted, such as definitions and other unclear guidelines. That's certainly out of the control of ERAI or any organization (outside of the government, I mean). I hope, and other contributors have noted, that the new procurement guidelines should help.

Do you think the data will change if the new guidelines are followed?

Mr. Roques
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Supply Network Guru
Re: Counterfeiting: The Worst Is Yet to Come
Mr. Roques   10/9/2012 5:26:25 PM
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Should the Government create certificates, based on audits and other systems? This would benefit firms that are very organized and can prove their products are not counterfeited. 

Has anyone done anything in this regard?

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