Where Are the VisionTech Parts?

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cameron
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Data Aggregator
Re: Tip of the iceberg?
cameron   8/13/2012 2:06:57 PM
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From some customers that I have spoke with and also new customers I talk to they say that if I'm not part of the ERAI/IDEA then they stand a chance to get counterfeit parts from me.

On more than one occasion I have heard this......

Just because I choose not to spend thousands of dollars a year for a paid membership to either of these sites doesn't mean at ALL that I ship bad parts. I've been in this industry for 19 years and stand behind my product!

I bet that my warranty is a lot better than MOST of the paid members on either of those sites. If companies want to spend a lot of money to be on those sites that's up to them BUT there are good companies that ship good product that are NOT on those paid sites too!

Never bought parts from any of those suppliers that Ellen mentioned either. By the way, it's great to see your posts on here as well Ellen!!

GraniteIC
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supply chain communication chain
GraniteIC   8/12/2012 1:06:53 PM
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 You ask:

How the notifications of counterfeit parts could realistically be passed along the supply chain so that everyone knows.

Easy, honest ethical companies make an immediate notification.

Dishonest companies cover up.

If you get a risk notification 5 weeks before the Vision Tech 2 year anniversary, I have a hard time believing your supplier just found out about Vision Tech.

If you get a Risk Notification from a supplier about a vendor who has not been arrested or just recently arrested understand that your supplier is being responsible and that is what product liability insurance is for.

Companies who are buying form Non-Vat Chinese or Chinese List Brokers located globally and covering up the risk. They are trafficking in counterfeits and there should be no place in the industry for them.

Innocent Vision Tech victims notified their customers. Profession Victims stayed silent and their silence is an admission of guilt.

Vendors who say, no need to notify because they tested the material are dishonest companies. Notify your customer. Allows them to take a second look. If the parts check out, great. If not the problem gets under control quickly. Either way there is no justifiable reason to not notify.

Not notifying puts customers at risk and is knowingly trafficking

Everyone in the Independent Distribution business Brokers, Liquidators, ID, Search platforms, Escrow companies have all known Non-Vat Chinese and the global Chinese List Brokers have been flipping e-waste for at least a decade. These companies have made millions in membership fees, escrow fees, testing fees and the sale of e-waste.

Silence is what allows it to continue, Risk Notification is the only way to stop it from being profitable. Because it's expensive to notify is no reason not to notify.

Tam Harbert
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supply chain communication chain
Tam Harbert   8/10/2012 6:54:56 PM
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Really great discussion, here! As I read through the comments, it's hard to understand how the notifications of counterfeit parts could realistically be passed along the supply chain so that everyone knows. Even if the buyers on the VisionTech list notified all their customers, then those customers woudl have to notify their customers and so on. And it seems to me that second tier  buyers/sellers would be very reluctant to notify customers. Nobody (except the first-tier VisionTech customer) knows who those second tier buyers are - their names aren't on the government's public list. Why would they tell their customers and damage their ownr reputations? Then there is the third level, fourth level, etc. buyers. It's like trying to track parts through the gray market - virtually impossible.

Barbara Jorgensen
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Great discussion going on here
Barbara Jorgensen   8/10/2012 3:27:33 PM
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I encourage our readers to read and participate in this discussion. Some of the best material on EBN is included in the message chains.

GraniteIC
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Stock Keeper
Re: Tip of the iceberg?
GraniteIC   8/10/2012 2:18:20 PM
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Kristal, excellent post in helping readers understand ERAI and what they do. The April 16, 2007 ERAI special report A TIME FOR CHANGE The Not So Hidden Truth behind the Chinese Open Market is an excellent example of your efforts to keep the community informed.

I want to be clear in my opinion ERAI is NOT an Anti-Competition Club. It is what Kristal explained it to be: A reporting agency

No parts from China started showing up on order in 2001. That statement was on the majority of orders by 2004. E-waste in China was not an unknown problem in the industry.

Kristal took action and created a very informative report in 2007. As it states in the report the problem was noticeable in 2001 and escalated every year thereafter. 

Companies doing business as Independent Distributors can not say they didn't know. They knowingly went to Chinese List Brokers to do the importing for them.

Just as counterfeits have evolved the tactics to created plausible deniability continue to evolve. Finding new ways to say you don't know any better doesn't mean you don't know any better. If anything It proved you do. 

I also agree that anyone who purchased a part from JFBK, JJ Electronics, MVP et al and Vision Tech should have notified their customers. If a company made a timely notification within 30 days of arrest, I can see how they were dupped by one of these companies. The government took the time to send everyone on the victims list a letter. All of these companies should have passed the risk notification along. Not doing so is knowingly trafficking in counterfeit. They knew there was a risk and they stayed silent. 

However I do not believe this to be the case. I believe the vast majority of these transactions were never revealed to the end user. I've even asked several Anti-Competition Club members and the response has always been the same. They see no need to because they "tested" the parts. When I explain testing e-waste only means you have shipped tested e-waste it doesn't make the parts new or authentic. They just get angry and say, no one is complaining and until they do it's a non-issue.

Kristal Snider - ERAI
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Stock Keeper
Re: Tip of the iceberg?
Kristal Snider - ERAI   8/10/2012 1:08:25 PM
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I would like to clarify a point on behalf of ERAI.  ERAI does not push any organization to procure from ERAI Members.  ERAI is a reporting agency comprised of Independent and Franchise Distributors, OEMs, CMs, Government Agencies, Enforcement and other trade groups.  One of our primary objectives is to gather and verify market intelligence such as data on high risk suppliers and suspect counterfeit parts.  While we do screen organizations before we allow them to access our data, this in no way should imply the Independent Distributors making use of our services should be classified as "trusted sources". Approved suppliers should be screened using a comprehensive auditing tool such as ARP6178 which includes both a desk-top audit and on-site inspection. ARP6178 is available via SAE Aerospace (www.sae.org).

Regarding Tam's question: "Where Are the VisionTech Parts?" - Organizations that procured from VisionTech, MVP Micro, etc. should identify all parts that were sourced from these suppliers and should subsequently notify all customers that received parts from these sources to ensure risk is mitigated. 

Getting back to a relationship driven business model is what ERAI encourages.   

GraniteIC
User Rank
Stock Keeper
They willfully closed their eyes to what was obvious.
GraniteIC   8/9/2012 6:28:43 PM
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The data is not old. It's just manipulated, by companies who belong to these clubs. 

Some companies use multiple names. They have the same employees and ownership. You might not see a club member on the list because they do their shady buying under one of their other company names. In my opinion if there is an overlap in ownership and employees it's the same company. Sometimes they are in the same building just different office suite. These Anti-Competition Clubs use lots of tricks to disguise what they are doing.

Everyone in the business of Independent Distribution knew exactly what JFBK, JJ Electronics, MVP et al and Vision Tech was doing. They are the tip of the iceberg.

There is hundreds of what we call Chinese List Brokers. They are the go to Brokers when you know you can't go to China you get someone else to do it for you.

The Anti-Competition Club members know that US Chinese List Brokers are being watched and showing up on multiple victims list is getting embarrassing so they have moved on to Canadian and European Chinese List Brokers. 

Responsible companies either never purchased from China or stopped back it 2001. By 2004 it was a full blown epidemic. April 16, 2007 ERAI special report A TIME FOR CHANGE The Not So Hidden Truth behind the Chinese Open Market. 

http://ecen4013.okstate.edu/docs/reading/ATimeForChange1.pdf 

Everyone has known since 2001 China was very dangerous. By 2004 anyone not willing to sell refurbished and counterfeits stopped buying in China it just became way to dangerous. That's why Chinese List Brokers became so profitable in 2005+ now it's moved to the Canadian and European Chinese List Brokers. These companies are easily identifiable the same way JFBK, JJ Electronics, MVP et al and Vision Tech were. 

The 500+ companies in business 7+ years and not on any of these professional victims list had no trouble spotting and avoiding them. Why couldn't the Anti-Completion Club members know? They made the decision to not to know. They willfully closed their eyes to what was obvious.

Barbara Jorgensen
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Blogger
Memberships...
Barbara Jorgensen   8/9/2012 3:55:31 PM
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I found those numbers shocking as well. Does GraniteIC mean that data is old? It seems to me VisionTech only happened a couple of years ago...

Either way, you would expect both those numbers to be lower -- like zero -- if everyone adhered to best practices.  True, many of those practices are outlined by trade associations and not everyone belongs to a trade association. I guess the government is taking a stab at it through its recent anti-counterfeit measures, but I think holes can be poked in that strategy as well. There's gotta be a better way...

GraniteIC
User Rank
Stock Keeper
Article is not using the membership at the time of the Vision Tech scandal
GraniteIC   8/9/2012 1:13:15 PM
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33 out of 35 members = 94%

Military and Commercial customers must look at their suppliers past. If you are buying from a supplier that show up on every professional victims list you are knowingly doing business with companies that engage in high risk activity. You are knowingly participating in the trafficking of counterfeits.

Companies have to stop approving suppliers based on membership in Anti-Competition Clubs. There are over 500 North American and European ID who have been in business for 7+ years with a proven track record of not buying in China or from international Non-Vat companies. Who do not show up on JFBK, JJ Electronics? MVP et all and Vision Tech victims list.

If your approved suppliers are engaging in high risk sourcing you are engaging in high risk sourcing. You are knowingly participating in the trafficking of counterfeits.

Eldredge
User Rank
Supply Network Guru
Re: Tip of the iceberg?
Eldredge   8/9/2012 10:32:51 AM
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@hm - I'm sure there are many more sources for counterfeit components out there that have succeeded in the same fraudulant practice.

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