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Greenpeace: Electronics Supply Chain Is Still Dirty

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Nemos
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Wipro
Nemos   11/20/2012 6:05:48 PM
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Congratulations to Wipro, It is very pity to see large and successful companies to be in the last positions (RIM, Toshiba) also I was expecting to see Apple to be in No1 position (Apple is the wealthiest company now)

pocharle
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Re: Wipro
pocharle   11/20/2012 6:36:00 PM
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No change really. Apple has been in to top spot for some time now...

Nemos
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Re: Wipro
Nemos   11/21/2012 5:53:41 AM
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Sorry for this but I doubt about it , the last time I saw the list Nokia was on top, actually you can't be from the top in the middle in a short term. 

Bolaji Ojo
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Re: Wipro
Bolaji Ojo   11/21/2012 7:55:38 AM
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Nokia was once No. 1 but that was two years ago.

pocharle
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Re: Wipro
pocharle   11/24/2012 5:45:40 PM

Really?

What list is that. Or better yet, what country/region is that list tracking?

tech4people
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Re: Wipro
tech4people   11/21/2012 5:34:54 AM
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Nemos,

I am sure you have seen (and have experienced) a lot about life and Business.

Whether we like it or not;Money can't Buy you everything in life.

Take a note of how Apple became the richest company in the world[By Extensively using Tax shelters to cheat on taxes] and shipping their work to the lowest cost destination to save on Labour;you realize they don't really have much in terms of Ethics do they???

So no,I am not at all surprised to see Apple is not No.1 in this list.

Regards

Ashish.

 

WaqasAltaf
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Re: Wipro
WaqasAltaf   11/21/2012 11:34:43 PM
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@ Ashish I second your point about Apple not being on the list because of its preference of money making. It is about realizing the corporate social responsibility in moving to environment friendly production no matter what the impact is on cost. Is the existing leaders are implementing it, then it is got to be practicable.

tech4people
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Re: Wipro
tech4people   11/22/2012 2:08:28 AM
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Waqas,

It all depends on if and when Ethical Investing catches on Big-time!!!

Right now The only Fund which does this aggressively is Norway's Pension Fund.

If more funds start acting like Norway's Pension Fund and turn into Activist investors then Apple will have no choice but to move towards more environmentally friendly practices.

When your Stock price falls by 20% in two days because Investors are applying pressure for bad business practices then Executives have no choice but to act.

Its how things work unfortunately the Market is Final Judge,Jury and Executioner here!

Regards

Ashish.

WaqasAltaf
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Re: Wipro
WaqasAltaf   11/22/2012 3:49:27 AM
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Ashish, I agree with you that market pressure is an effective way to implement environmental policies however we can't let the market decide as to whether the environment friendly production should be implemented. This is because if the majority players are not concerned about the environment, the norm will force those who are currently implementing to withdraw their efforts. The point is that government has to regulate the process.

tech4people
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Re: Wipro
tech4people   11/22/2012 5:03:09 AM
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Waqas,

This is where you and me differ.

Especially if you look at how the Economic-Political System works in the US today;you would think twice before giving the Federal Government in DC more power.

Its a massive-massive mistake.

America has become a haven for Crony-Capitalist interests precisely because we have concentrated too much power in the hands of those people in DC.

I prefer total and complete devolution of power down to the lowest levels so as to enable States,Districts,Cities and Towns to take their own decisions.

The same goes for Environmental concerns as well.

Lets say a company has the option for establishing its Electronics Processing plant in two seperate States ,State A and State B.

In State A,Unemployment is not very high(5%) and the economy is by and large doing very well.Now here;if the Citizens stand up in opposition of this plant[Primarily for Environmental Reasons];it makes sense.After all,the NIMBY phenomenon is well and active today in America.

On the other hand in State B,Unemployment is very-very high(10%+);where each and every job is fought over big-time.Here the State (and its people) welcome this Investment with open arms.But then what happens?

The Federal Government in DC slaps more insane paperwork and regulations on the company which stops them from investing there(instead the jobs go overseas).

Why should DC stick its nose in the affairs of States here???

Lets face the facts-Every human activity generates some pollution or the other.The solution is to make sure that Corporations get more efficent and Sustainable with how they use Resources.And this can be done best through Competition and market forces.

Not Government Diktat.

Regards

Ashish.

WaqasAltaf
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Re: Wipro
WaqasAltaf   11/23/2012 9:02:42 AM
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@ tech4people

Relying on central government alone is not a good idea but to me relying on market forces alone is not safe either. If you think from a global perspective and not just the US, there are many countries where if the government lets the market forces implement the environment protection measures, that will not happen no matter what. It is about the precedence. If that says that money making is important, then every company in that country is Apple.

tech4people
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Re: Wipro
tech4people   11/23/2012 9:15:43 AM
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Waqas,

I could very easily bring about the Reverse Argument also-Just because you have Government Rules and Regulations ;what is the guarantee that they will be enforced fairly and not be sold out to the Highest bidder???

Regards

Ashish.

Hospice_Houngbo
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Re: Wipro
Hospice_Houngbo   11/23/2012 8:17:46 PM
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@tech4people

"what is the guarantee that they will be enforced fairly and not be sold out to the Highest bidder???"

Good point. But we can't generalize that to every country. Laws and regulations are much more enforced in most western or developed countries.

WaqasAltaf
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Re: Wipro
WaqasAltaf   11/24/2012 12:00:49 AM
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@ Ashish

There is no guarantee. But in a system where corporations are ready to pay bribe to government to escape from the cost of implementing environment protection measures, you cant expect the market forces to play their part effectively. A government regulation does make a difference; if 70% break the law, 30% will implement it.

FLYINGSCOT
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global companies
FLYINGSCOT   11/21/2012 4:58:08 AM
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I wonder how traceable the performance is for the larger companies that use subcons in China.  If Greenpeace is tracking everyone in the prodcution flow then the larger companies should be commended for a job well done.

tech4people
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Re: global companies
tech4people   11/21/2012 5:47:08 AM
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FlyingScot,

Yeah I had the same feeling in my head too...

Somehow its really easy for the Majors to outsource all liability and responsibility  to the subcontractors (who do all the Dirty-work for them).

Regards

Ashish.

tech4people
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It would be nicer if Greenpeace did something to help us Generate more jobs in this economy.
tech4people   11/21/2012 5:40:58 AM
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Guys,

I understand the notion of recycling and environmental sustainability[In particular using the least amount of resources to the get the most work done];but do we just need more and more bueracracy/paper-work or do we need Simplicity???

I am saying this because for most Businesses today the Bueracracy is so strangling that they refuse to generate the jobs that are needed in this economy.

Europe[In particular France]is pathetic in this respect;but American bueracracy particularly in states like California and Massacheuts is terrible too...

Regards

Ashish.

WaqasAltaf
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Impact on cost
WaqasAltaf   11/21/2012 11:11:32 PM
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Anna, could you shed some light on the cost factor in eliminating green house gases ? Whether the cost of energy is likely to increase or the manufacturers will save the cost and it is only the matter of putting in some effort?

prabhakar_deosthali
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Re:
prabhakar_deosthali   11/22/2012 3:42:00 AM
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It is good to see some of the top companies taking initiatives to make their manufacturing facilities environment friendly.

 

I am just curious to know how the ratings are done?  Is it based upon the average emission levels or peak emission levels.

Is their some standard on how much a company is allowed to emit?

Is there some kind manufacturing capacity vs amount of emission allowed or is it linked with the actual production vs  the total emission during the production period?

 

 

 

tech4people
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Re:
tech4people   11/22/2012 5:07:52 AM
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Prabhakar,

Good Questions!

As an entrepreneur I detest most paper-work and this is an issue which has become more and more acute today thanks Organizations like Greenpeace and especially all manner of Greens invading DC today.

Don't get me wrong I don't support Enviromental pollution or harming Mother nature;but I also want Jobs too.

If it means pollution levels rise slightly(say upto 5% from where they are today);to add more Quality jobs to the country I support that move entirely.

Regards

Ashish.

Bolaji Ojo
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Re:
Bolaji Ojo   11/22/2012 12:45:07 PM
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Ashish, What's your recommended solution to the regulatory overload?

tech4people
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Re:
tech4people   11/22/2012 1:01:47 PM
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Bolaji,

I would do two things.

First)Slash All Federal Government Salaries by 25% across the Board-What will this do?

Apart from Reducing the Attractiveness of Federal Government Jobs also cut our Budget Deficit sharply.

and

Second)Institute Single Window clearances (with one Federal ,One State and One County representative) on the Board of Clearances.

No more going to a hundred places for different-different clearances.

I know Mitt Romney was not a very popular guy when he stood for election[I did'nt like him either];but he raised a very valuable issue during the Presidential Campaign-More than half of all American Citizens are dependent on the Government for some form of assistance/Salaries.

Unless this feature changes and changes real fast;I see no real hope for escape from our Bueracratic Mega-state.

Its sad but its true.

Regards

Ashish.

Bolaji Ojo
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Re:
Bolaji Ojo   11/22/2012 1:20:17 PM
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Ashish, First, Happy Thanksgiving.

I won't address first your assumptions about the potential impact of an across the board 25 percent cut in Federal Government salaries with the intention of making the jobs uninteresting to highly qualified folks!

However, I must address the comment regarding the percentage of people dependent upon the government. It interests me that Mitt Romeny was seeking a government job and was supported by billionnaires who -- I am guessing -- are altruists seeking to also help him save the nation. Everyone is dependent upon the government. That's the truth most of us, including yourself, should accept. I'll explain.

It's Thanksgiving Day as I write this and I am sitting in my house certain peace reigns around me, convinced I need only dial 911 to get help -- medical and otherwise -- and my roads are well paved and my country is heavily armed and can rebuff any army today in the world.

The infrastructure you and I depend upon and the peace we take for granted are assured by the government we want to dump on. I am not a politician seeking office but I am sure glad there's a government in place that employs highly qualified people and that pays them (hopefully) salaries that are quite competitive.

tech4people
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Re:
tech4people   11/22/2012 1:30:09 PM
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Bolaji,

Happy Thanksgiving to you too!!!

I have seen some very good studies and articles which very clearly point out that the Federal Government heavily overpays its employees compared to the Private Sector today.

Sure,there may be specialized jobs[like IT security for instance] where the Private Sector pays more;but by and large the Government heavily overpays its employees today.

I prefer the Ron Paul way of doing things-Keep Limited Government (Defense,Foriegn Policy,Immigration,Environment)and Privatize everything else.

Every single function you have referred to here can be done by the Private Sector today for much cheaper and more efficently than the Government.As long as we have a Transparent and Open Bidding process for all Contracts I see no reason why Government should poke its nose everywhere else.

Yeah I agree-Romney deserved too lose.He was too sleazy a guy to win WhiteHouse.

Regards

Ashish.

prabhakar_deosthali
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Re:
prabhakar_deosthali   11/22/2012 8:04:16 AM
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You are right Ashish.

In my opinion the Automobile industry is the most pollution causing industry today both in terms of the emssions created by their production facility, the emissions created by the input materials ( Mainly steel) and the emissions caused by the final products.

 

Electronics products atleast do not  have any significant emisions while working .

IF emmsion causing industries are outside the dense population areas then it really does not matter about their emissions

 

tech4people
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Re:
tech4people   11/22/2012 12:52:56 PM
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Prabhakar,

I just wish more people thought like you did!!!

We have too many useless Paper-pushers in DC today.

Regards

Ashish.

Bolaji Ojo
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Re:
Bolaji Ojo   11/22/2012 1:01:28 PM
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Emissions and other industrial pollutants are not space bound. They don't stay in one spot and just impact the immediate environment. They move around and pollute cities and nations far from where they were generated. Chinese pollution will find its way to other regions of the globe. That's why the phenomenon global warming is a global and not a local challenge but it's also a global challenge that must be controlled locally.

tech4people
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Re:
tech4people   11/22/2012 1:08:53 PM
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Bolaji,

I don't believe in Global Warming.

As far as pollution is concerned-Yes you are correct;Pollution does tend to move around one place to another very frequently.Which is why,I recommended putting more power in the hands of Local citizens[devolution of State power];let Citizens decide for themselves whether they want the jobs or if they feel the Pollution levels are too onerous and its not worth the risk.

This is where my Three Member Board Idea would work[With one Federal Rep on it too];if the pollution levels are too high;any one member can veto the entire project.

Regards

Ashish.

Wale Bakare
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Benefits
Wale Bakare   11/24/2012 4:35:46 PM
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The problem is how the greenpeace impacts on finance. What financial implications on their investments?  Most investors arent interested in what would not bring quick returns.

Adeniji Kayode
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Re:
Adeniji Kayode   11/22/2012 7:20:30 PM
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@Bolaji, I agree with you on that, I really believe emission-causing industries moving to a non- residencial area(s) will not solve the issue of the enviromental pollution at all, but to embrace the Greenpeace.

Adeniji Kayode
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Re:
Adeniji Kayode   11/22/2012 7:31:03 PM
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@Prabhakar,

Youare right on that but in the developing countries, that may not be the case.

They still depend on generators for power so much that automobile don,t really make the top of the list.

syedzunair
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Re:
syedzunair   11/23/2012 5:17:08 AM
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@Adeniji Kayode: 

You are spot on. In the developing world automobiles do not make it to the top of the list. The power generation and the industries put little emphasis on being envoirnmentally friendly. Even if you consider automobiles to be an important contributor I think that it would be the heavy vehicles and the auto-rickshaws (3 wheelers that usually run on 2-stroke engines). 

prabhakar_deosthali
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Carbon credit trading
prabhakar_deosthali   11/25/2012 11:54:50 PM
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Isn't the trading of Carbon credits just defeats the Greenpeace efforts. Trading of carbon credits is almost like shifting of the pollution from one place to another - if I am not wrong.



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