If I Were a Counterfeiter...

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Douglas Alexander
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Re: Philips
Douglas Alexander   5/8/2012 9:33:55 PM
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Flyingscot, Philips are the key pioneers of PUF research. There are a number of papers online that you can read by searching "Philips Using PUFs". Some of the PDFs are general introductions and others go into testing detail that is really intriguing. Can you help me find an article where they are actually shipping their products with PUF security for the mass market?

Douglas Alexander
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Re: Are cloned RFID tags available
Douglas Alexander   5/8/2012 2:54:36 PM
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sdrobac,

If you give me your email, I will send you an excellent PDF that covers this. I have a contact page at www.componentsengineering.com

sdrobac
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Are cloned RFID tags available
sdrobac   5/8/2012 2:23:19 PM
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Douglas - You note in your post that you "discovered that -- for about 10 euros -- a duplicate tag can be produced".  I'm a long-tiome RFID guy, and have anticipated such a thing happening eventually, but had not heard about it until I saw your post. 

It has long been possible to copy the user-programmed number in an RFID tag and load it into another tag, but all of the RFID chips being produced today by mainstream suppliers also have a unique Tag IDentifier, or TID, which cannot be changed.  So if a true clone can be produced, that means that some (rogue?) chipmaker is producing a chip with a writeable TID.  If that's the case, I'd love to learn more.  Can you pass on any background you might have on the topic?  Thanks!

Douglas Alexander
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Re: Philips
Douglas Alexander   5/8/2012 12:35:57 PM
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Flyingscot, Great hearing from you! I will try to find the contact at Philips and get back to you. Thanks for the heads-up.

Douglas Alexander
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re:
Douglas Alexander   5/8/2012 12:16:32 PM
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All, I am getting dangerously close to mere speculation on the full capabilities and limitations of DNA marking. I do not want to go too much deeper Into this until I have met with the scientist involved. Let me make sure we are on solid technical ground before this subject coverage becomes too diluted and mushy to be of any real worth. Standby for the rock solid information.

Douglas Alexander
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re:
Douglas Alexander   5/8/2012 12:04:37 PM
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Prabhakar and WaqasAltaf, We have been talking mostly concentrated ink DNA solutions, but the DNA can also be added to adhesives so if a packaging tape has the OEM's Logo printed (ink) marker and the adhesive tape securing the shipping carton flaps and edges together, throw in a DNA spray all over the carton as in the case of the earlier article mentioning the company marking their rolls of copper, then we have an even harder to clone security method. I will be meeting with the tech folks at Applied very soon and I will explore with them the directions they have been considering and mention carton/container level security. I will follow up with another post. I know Opeters has been following this with great interest.

WaqasAltaf
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re:
WaqasAltaf   5/8/2012 11:27:06 AM
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@ Prabharkar

"If such advanced technologies are applied on the packaging "

You have made a valid point. The counterfeiters then have to get hold of packages of used products and they can then repack their counterfeit products into original packages. That seems impossible.

Also we have to assume that counterfeited packages arent a possibility; which unfortunately they are. The risk of counterfeited products are similar to those of counterfeited packages.

 

WaqasAltaf
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Cat and mouse game
WaqasAltaf   5/8/2012 11:21:12 AM
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Since, there is no immediate introduction of DNA expected, so counterfeiters can relax. They can probably enjoy the counterfeiting era as RFID and other measures are in their pockets. Even if DNA method comes, there will be solution through reverse engineering soon as the counterfeiting market is too lucrative and the participants cant accept defeat. The even bigger challenge will be to make this DNA technology cheap enough so that small-size manufacturers are able to adopt it.

FLYINGSCOT
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Philips
FLYINGSCOT   5/8/2012 6:56:40 AM
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I believe Philips has been shipping product with PUF for many years so you can probably find some interesting information there.

prabhakar_deosthali
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prabhakar_deosthali   5/8/2012 2:33:05 AM
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In my opinion, all these new technologies are going to be expensive for encryption at the manufacturers end and decryption at the buyer end.

If such advanced technologies are applied on the packaging ( not the chip packaging but the material packaging) and if the packaging is made more secure and tamperproof then it will become an economical and feasible for all suppliers and buyers.

Such technologies can then be applied for all size, passive as well as active components and won';s require a special process to be added in the manufactruing of the components.

 

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