'Market Forces' Can't & Won't Protect Public Interest

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Barbara Jorgensen
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Self-regulation
Barbara Jorgensen   9/26/2012 4:03:18 PM
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Interesting discussion and one that's probably debtaed every day. Whether it is the state or the Federal government, there is a point at which individuals cede the right to think for themselves. The big-soda ban in NYC is one such example. Cigarettes kill you, texting can kill oyu, obesity can kill you. At what point does an individual take responsibility for his/her own choices? I chose not to smoke. I can't text while driving--I can barely text while sitting. I hate soft drinks. My concern is whether it is at the state or federal level, people are going to be content let the state make decisions for them.

On the other hand, there is a difference between being a danger to one's self, and a danger to others. Texting and smoking definitely fall in the latter category. I guess I'll defend your god-given right to drink a Big Gulp.

Himanshugupta
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Re: Are goverments really serious about protecting their public?
Himanshugupta   9/26/2012 1:49:54 PM
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the regulation passed by government normally try to appease everyone: public, corporates, political class. In doing so, most of the time either the regulations are either delayed or are weak to get the desirable effects. I think that the dilemma any government faces is keep a balance among growth, public interest and censorship. This is both boon and curse of democracy. 

Ned Ludd
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Re: If the government could solve problems, there wouldn't be any problems.
Ned Ludd   9/26/2012 11:52:50 AM
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Your hysteria over my mild comments on self-regulation suggest that you have a deep, almost religious faith in corporate benevolence. God help you. I was no, by the way, demonizing the cell-phone industry. I'm quite pleased that they have taken a strong stand against texting at the wheel. It sets them apart from the criminal behavior of Big Tobacco. My point is only that allowing industries to self-regulate when their products prove dangerous is the slowest way to solve the problem. I agree that laws are no guarantee of changing human behavior. Idiots will still be idiots. But seat belt laws and smoking bans -- for example -- have saved lives, reduced medical expenses and improved the quality of life, at little cost to the "freedom" cherished by libertarian hysterics. Police will cach few scofflaws. But if there is a law, law-abiding people like you and I will make a good-faith effort to obey it, sugnificantly reducing the overall danger. As for my solution, putting a lock on the dial, this wasn't my idea. It came from Martin Cooper, a pioneer of mobile telephony. Also, I think he meant it as a metaphor, which is a figure of speech that literal-thinking people have difficulty grasping.

prabhakar_deosthali
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Are goverments really serious about protecting their public?
prabhakar_deosthali   9/26/2012 6:39:32 AM
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The problem with the governments all over tghe world is that they just pass laws which are sometimes difficult to enforce.

The other problem is that no government wants to remove the root cause of the problem. For example if a government is really keen on banning cigarettes and protect their people from the ill effects of smoking why in first place they allow the cigarette manufacturing? They should jsut ban those factories>. But sice they gets  a sizable amount of tax revenues from them they are just happy putting the warning signs of the cigarette packets.

Same is true for texting while driving. If a government is really keen on removing the dangers of this bad habit, it should enforce the auto manufacturers to put an automatic jamming of all cell phone communications when the vehicle is in motion. instead of just passing laws which are difficult enforce on the roads.

SP
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'Market Forces' Can't & Won't Protect Public Interest
SP   9/26/2012 3:14:57 AM
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I guess when it comes to public reforms, its the individual's thinking and choices that makes a difference. No law, unless there is a major penalty associated with it can make a difference. If a person on his own understands the bad things cigarettes can do to his/hers body and is willing to let that addication go away can make things work out. Friends and family can definitely make a big difference. But law, no way. Here we see in movies whenever a filmstar smokes on screen, there is text dsiplayed at the bottom that Cigratte smoking is injurious to health. But hardly anyone reads that statement only for a moment they might feel that the movie viewing is disturbed. And tobacco industry is very very huge, they would twist the laws so well that nothing can come on their way.

stochastic excursion
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Re: If the government could solve problems, there wouldn't be any problems.
stochastic excursion   9/26/2012 1:01:05 AM
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wagnert makes the important point that government has sources of income and expenditures that can skew its perception of the public interest.  The fact is that no human institution can make the call as to what's good for all citizens, with 100% accuracy. So why dwell on the weakness of the market in this regard, when the purpose of the vast majority of businesses is too narrow to be categorically pro- or anti- public interest anyway?

The only reason I can think of is the categorical distrust, in some political circles, of legislative programs which seek to address problems in society.  wagnert seems to acknowledge that it's desirable to have legislation which increases penalties, in cases of vehicular homicide where frivolous devices are used.  Maybe this is an example of government intervention, falling short of nanny-state excesses, that actually benefit society.

wagnert in atlanta
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If the government could solve problems, there wouldn't be any problems.
wagnert in atlanta   9/25/2012 9:37:57 PM
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Your notion of market failure is a strange one.    To quote you, "Among the cases that most obviously contradicts this laissez-faire belief in the self-regulating market is the shameful record of Big Tobacco. For generations, covering hundreds of thousands of smoking-related deaths and billions of dollars in smoking-caused medical expenses, tobacco companies systematically opposed any effort to publicize the dangers of cigarettes."  They may have opposed it -- but they couldn't stop it.  Ever since the Fifties, there has been a constant drumfire of studies, press releases, lectures and articles detailing in gruesome detail the dangers of cigarettes.  Even those who couldn't read could see the television public service announcements.  At the same time, the tobacco companies were forbidden to advertise, first on television and then in print.  The evils of tobacco were universally known -- and, to the chagrin of the nanny state, people continued to smoke.  Finally, the assault of the attorneys general of liberal states resulted in a court ruling that not only forbid the tobacco companies to advertise in any way, but they had to finance state anti-smoking campaigns out of their profits.  Do you remember what happened then?  The anti-smoking campaigns came to an end, because if the number of smokers dropped, the tobacco companies could no longer pay the states the fines.Talk about a failure of regulation!  And people still smoke, now with the tacit endorsement of the states.

Your demonization of the cellphone industry is even less justifiable.  I don't ever recall any cellphone company ad advocating phoning or texting while driving.  It is such a self-evidently stupid thing to do that it hardly needed saying.  You don't decry the fact that Chevy doesn't run public service announcements saying, "Don't get into your Chevy and drive into a tree at 75 miles an hour." 

You advocate a federal law.  Guess what.  The Feds can't pass motor vehicle laws.  That's the province of the states.  The most the Feds can do is make some form of Federal aid conditional on the states passing some desired law.  Why on earth should cellphone companies embrace that?  Again, you aren't decrying Chevy for not sponsoring speeding or drunk-driving laws.

You say, "The mobile industry chooses to humor extremists like Perry, which leaves 11 states where homicidal idiots can still text and drive."

I have very bad news for you.  Homicidal idiots can still text and drive in all 50 states.  They can still veer off the road and kill a man changing a flat tire.  And in all fifty states they will be charged with vehicular homicide.  That's already the law.  In thirty-nine states they can also be charged with texting while driving.  I'll bet the sentence for the two offenses together is the same as the one for homicide alone.  It's also very likely that the only time the texting-while-driving charge will be brought will be after an accident -- that the number of times someone will be charged only with texting is vanishingly small.  State and local cops have better fish to fry than running down people who are violating these nuisance laws.  Texting and wandering all over the road, yes.  Texting alone, no.

Your interpretation of the "public interest" is also strange, because it ignores what the public is interested in.  Smokers fully informed of the dangers of smoking continued to smoke.  Only when the nanny-staters managed to kite the price of cigarettes through the roof did the number of smokers start to go down.  If your idiot solution -- "a lock on the dial" -- goes through, texting or talking while driving will go down.  But (depending on the nature of the "lock") so will texting or talking while a passenger in a car.  Or a taxi, or a bus, or a train.  I know this won't bother you, because there is such an important point at stake.  But it's sure as hell going to annoy a lot of commuters. 

wskehr
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If self regulating worked, there would be no calls for government regulation
wskehr   9/25/2012 6:37:20 PM
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If self regulation or state laws actually worked, the proof would be that the problems would not exist.  If it's rivers catching fire 50 years ago or people killing others because they are texting today, there has been more than enough time for industry self-regulation to fix the problem before the federal regulators took up the task.

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