This dialogue occurred on Thursday, June 21, at 12:00 p.m. EDT.

Declining sales at Nokia, combined with reorganization actions at the company, will heavily impact some of its component suppliers and supply chain partners. What are the implications for its supply base, which companies will be affected, and what can they learn from the experience of others that have in the past been caught in the implosion of major OEMs? Join Junko Yoshida, chief of international correspondents and former editor in chief of EE Times, and Bolaji Ojo, editor in chief of EBN, in a live chat on this subject at 12:00 p.m. EDT, on Thursday, June 21, 2012.
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Hey, Nemos, still waiting your email

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Bye Bye, everyone. :) Have a lovely weekend. 

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:)

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Bye everyone...see you soon in next chat.

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Thanks Junko/Bolaji/Barbara and thank you all. Looking fwd.

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thanks everyone

 

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Thank you Junko,Bolaji and barbara.

bye for now

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Had a great discussion. Thank you for the insights, Junko!

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@Bolaji, and @Barbara: Thanks to you both, too.

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Readers, with that, I'll thank you all for your participation.

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Thank you all and look forward to seeing you again on our next Live Chat.

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@Junko:  Thanks you very much being here with us. I really enjoyed reading your thought. :) I hope you will come here again.

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@mfbertozzi, The pain is being spread across its supply chain. Companies like Texas Instruments have taken their body blows and others are bracing.

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Thanks Junko and everyone. Bye!

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@all, thanks for the invite. and it was truly fun.

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See you eveyone on the message board

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Thank you Junko, Bolaji and Barbara

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Junko--thanks, and we will continue to follow you at EETimes

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Thank you Junko.Bolaji,Barbara, as always very informative

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@Barbara/@Junko: final question - will Nokia suppliers impacted "flat" or suppliers from some specific region will be more impacted?

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Junko, You've been wonderful as usual. I hope we can invite you for some comments in the near future on the Microsoft Surface tablet. We would appreciate your insight into what it might mean for the company and its suppliers.

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@tech4people you are right but US market only not enough. BRIC has major role to play in world economy today

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You are welcome. Boy this is really a high energy group!

 

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Thank you, Junko!

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@Junko: I agree with the remarks. However, if Nokia movies it's business to a new dimension, it may also have to engage new suppliers..that would be interesting

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thnx for sharing ur awesome wisdom wid us Junko!!

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Thank you Junko.Bolaji,Barbara for all the informations , Thank you all for the questions

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Thank you Junko for the informative chat...

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I am not saying that Nokia should be doing all this by itself...it shoud find a good partner

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@tech but most of the consumption power is still not explored in BRIC nation

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My concluding remarks would be...unfortuatnely I don't see much bright side for suppliers...but I think if and when Nokia decides to move its business beyond conventional phones, that would be very interesting to watch...remember a lot of consumer devices we see on the market will inevitably be connected to Internet...

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We are getting down to the wire. Readers, please contiue your discussions. I'd like to thank Junko on behalf of EBN.

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@mfbertozzi, My feeling is that RIM is looking at the end of the road. May not happen immediately but it will eventually.

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@junko-the BRICS hhv their own problems.I prefer taking on US market aggresively today.

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The way Apple transformed itself by siiting in the backgorund after trailing in PC market

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@Junko

how do you think Nokia can really lead in china when china already has lots of phones not only within but every part of the world

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Hi folks, I'd like to reiterate any closing remanks from Junko?

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@tech4people achieving that remains a big challenge.

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@wale...any BRIC countries would be great. seriously.

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@Prabhakar its very difficult to innovate now...most of the innovation is factored in all the mobile handsets...

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@Prabhar-Now surviving is the bigger issue.

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@Junko, China is a big market but the country has so many phone makers. Any other targeting market for Nokia?

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@Bolaji: I see, thx, but I don't see other possibilities as well, by leaving each one alone.

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@tech4people, the reality is that I also saw a lot of high-tech executives in China carry g=Samsung Galaxy for web surfacing and another android phone for talking

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Thank you Junko

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Nokia should not try to follow . It should lead from the front with a totally new revolutionary idea , noy just follow Android. Create something different

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Okay, as we get to the end of this Live Chat, I would like to see if Junko has some concluding remarks related to the central question of this session: What impact will further deterioration in Nokia's market position mean for its suppliers and contractors?

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@Susan exactly.

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@adeniji Kayode, first embrace Android; do a real quality mobile phone leader -- especially in coutnries like China

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@WB: both companies need to increase business and are not in overlap of the market, currently they have quite complementary products, so a marge could automatically increase biz and new frontiers for suppliers too. They are only my thoughts....

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@All-I have seen some really amazing Android phones from Samsung and LG on the market today-The SIII is phenomenal!

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@Adeniji good point.

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@mfbertozzi, A Nokia-RIM merger won't make a difference to both companies and could even be problematic. I don't see it happening.

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@anadvy: You mean Nokia-Android phones?

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@Junko: I agree. Android does have quality issues. I think at some point Google will have to put a restriction on what handsets Android can run. It can give a bad name to Android if the phone performance is very bad.

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@JUnko-But then for that u cant blame Android-Its the Hardware that sucks!Hope the chinese realize that!!

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How can Nokia leverage its vertical integration? What would make feature phones better?

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@All please have in mind that before 3 years Nokia was at the Leading position in the Mobile Market

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@Susan, I think it would be very tough for Nokia go back to its position in India and China. I think one of the option is to bring android based phones, because people here prefer android based phones.

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@junko,

in summery, what do you think Nokia can do to really have a good standing all over again

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I am not saying merge. They have enough resources to work independently

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@tech4people, no...some of the android phones just don't work. the quality sucks

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How is the MS Surface being received?  anyone know?

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@Flying Scot-Nokia+RIM=DOUBLE DISASTER!!!

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@p_d: are you meaning a merge involving these companies does make sense?

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@prabhakar: "Both RIM and Nokia has to create some new market", easier said than done

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@Junko-what were the key complaints Chinese users had wid their android phones? Too much choice? poor responses(touch)???

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I am trying to see a bright light here for suppliers to Nokia and haven't come up with one. Perhaps Microsoft will be a new market for them as it debuts the tablet PC, the Surface.

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Nokia and RIM merge....none have the correct design so it could be a disaster.

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@mfbertozzi, how possible do you think of that?

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So, i definitely think there is room for Nokia to be really a quality leader in the android market

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@anandvy: What do you think would make Nokia go back to its position in India and China? 

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but truth to be told, a lot of those good looking android phones'quality is less than optimal. some even said, if they had to buy the third phone (because the first two smart phones didn't work well) they should have bought iPhone in the first place

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Both RIM and Nokia has to create some new market may be not in mobile phones but may be in the uptapped huge internet of things market

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@Bolaji: what about a merge involving Nokia and RIM? Maybe this step could interest several suppliers and several endusers.

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@Bolaji: Even Samsung has gone for vertical integration. I think this may be a good reason behind success.

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@Junko, Won't they instead then migrate towards iPhone rather than another untested Nokia program.

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Chinese do love android phones...they are good looking, they don't necessarily look cheap, Chinese love feature-rich phones

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So they need to compete in smartphones and are so far behind it will take a miracle to catch up unless they merge.  They could use their manf prowess but need a design partner

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@Junko , I agree with you. In India companies like Micromax and Carbonn mobile are competing with Nokia in low-end phones .

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@ flyingscot

Unfortunately, I see it the only way Nokia can take the share of the cake. By lowering down prices otherwise Iphone and other android products are just too attractive to users and they wont like experimenting with Nokia at similar prices

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Regarding suppliers, I think the bigger casualties will be EMS. Winding down handset manufacturing and moving toward something else is big bucks, lots of capex

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@Tech4: Not everything what it seems to make sense is what it is to do. There is more in a decision that pure logic. And also, what makes sense to some, doesn't make sense to others. 

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@all...one saving grace is this. I recently came back from China. I heard a lot of people complaining about the quality of their Android phones

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@Nemos: I don't think there's a single move that can do the trick..it has to be many things they need to do

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@TaimoorZ: Yes, I have, in my opinion it happened because Samsung has focused only on hw and has adopted Android spending limited effort in OS, against Nokia.

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Increasingly, companies like Apple are differentiating themselves not just on the look and feel of the products but also in the hardware inside. Apple has its own inhouse chip design teams and even in displays it makes sure it can differentiate itself. If a supplier cannot be assured of sales specific to Nokia, for instance, it would not vote capex for that program.

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Even the samrtphone prices are crashing making them a low margin business

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@flyingscot, I don't think they will. they have already lost in that battle

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@all which move do you think will lead Nokia or RIM out of the Market ?

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@Junko, I agree...they are playing against time

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I worry if Nokia goes down the lower pricing route.

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@bolaji... well, in fact, now that more and more smartphones are coming downstream, that does make sense

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@Bolaji: If the R&D is specific to Nokia products then suppliers need to be skeptical about it..or may be request Nokia to fund the research to be on the safe side

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@Bolaji-regarding the funds question I feel most companies will probably scale back R&D funding dramatically unless they are incentivized by Nokia.

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@Bolaji: imo, it depends on suppliers, I believe yes for hw suppliers and for sw suppliers could be a little bit stronger to accept.

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@adeniji. use the dual SIM card phone!

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@Junko, So far what Nokia has said is that it will devote resources to feature phones and then compete (with lower pricing) against Android in smartphones.

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@dave sasson, wtih all due respect, Nokia is even losing on that end of the battle..

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Bolaji: As long as there are legacy systems, suppliers should hang tight. Plus, there are few companies that can afford to abandon even their struggling OEMs. I think it depends on whether they will havet o invest in new capabilities to support Nokia

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@Junko

what could be the alternative for the people carrying two phones

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@Susan-I understand that but it makes the most practical sense today.

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@Bolaji, I think so 

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If you supply semiconductors to Nokia right now, should you even be spending R&D funds developing products for the company?

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Well good news to supply chain - Microsoft is spreading its tentacle to hardware sector.

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@Bolaji yes I think so

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@bolaji, I think we first need to hear from Nokia what their future holds

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The one thing Nokia has going for it is that it is still considered a leading mobile player (outside the US) and may still have siginificant brand loyalty.  If the company can hang on to that and rollout innovative Win-Nok devices, it may be able to regain its foothold...but it will be tough to compete in the high-end smartphone market

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Has anyone noticed how Samsung has stepped up in the mobile phone market and has surpassed Nokia in terms of innovation? Nokia was always ahead of Samsung in the mobile phone market three or four years back..

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@Tech4: For a company to buy something there has to be something for sale. Nokia is not for sale. 

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I ask because that's what I want us to focus on in this discussion.

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I know a lot of people carrying two phones... but they don't have to do that

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Folks, are we therefore writing off all Nokia suppliers and telling them to bail out on the company?

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@Adenji-its unlikely dual sims will fly in the west simply because most users have post-paid plans and competition is not half as fierce in Asia today.

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One of the drawbacks to the Surface has to do with cellular capability. Does Nokia bring anything to the party there?

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@adeniji, I am not sure...but it could be...for example, on one SIM card, you do all your business calls, and you can use another SIm for your personal calls

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@Dave-The Brand name+Relationships with Hardware Vendors.

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@Junko, do you still believe Nokia provides one of the best hardware features ?

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@Waqas: Exactly. I don't see Elop being a good leader. He doesn't have what it takes to lead Nokia at least. 

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@Junko,

is double sim phone a good idea in the west?

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@ Junko

Its true. Microsoft is still young in smartphone OS industry and its competitors are too big.

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@Nemos to Bolaji: I trust you...

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@Junko-Yes My sentiments exactly.I think it will be a good strategic fit.

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@mfbertozzi, I don't know the answer to that

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I am not sure what Micorsoft will be buying from Nokia...old handsets that are not companitible with their OS??

 

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@Anandy :LG's triple SIM A290

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@Junko, Correct.

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Does that Microsift-Nokia alliance still mean anything?

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@Bolaji/@Junko: is the future towards multi-SIM mobile handset or single-SIM mobile handset by running an innovative OS doable to hang any mobile networks?

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@Tech4... he's not good either, not for Nokia. 

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@Nemos

there is already a triple sim phone here but not in Nokia brands

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In today's world the roles are changing so rapidly that todays operators will become tomorrows manufacturers. That puts the real old age manufacturers like Nokia in trouble

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Microsoft doesn't know anything about connected mobile device...all they know is the PC model

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@Bolaji " First, embrace Android." Indeed indeed :)

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@Nemos, triple SIM trend ? Is it true, i havent seen any such mobiles ?

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@tech4people, actually, i love the idea. Why not?

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@Susan-do u feel There will be a backlash in Finland if Microsoft decides to buy out Nokia's handset business entirely?

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@Bolaji @Wale: Because Nokia and RIM are two different issues, two different companies. Saying they are in the same sinking boat is like saying two kids who are not doing well at some point at school will both be failures for the rest of their lives. Things can always change, in humans, or in companies. 

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@taimoorZ, i beg to differ

Of course, you may be talking about tier one handset vendors... but when it comes to the interoperability within networks, etc. Nokia still rules

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@Nemos: right now, have them right people for looking at the past? New people especially at executive level have replaced key managers.

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@Junko-What are the chances that Microsoft decides to buy out the Entire Nokia Handset business to enforce greater control over the whole process& experience?

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@Barbara I think we are heading for the triple SIM trend....

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Junko, If I look at the landscape and wonder what Nokia should do next, I would say it is time for it to do one of two things as a short-term measure: First, embrace Android. Second, consider being acquired by Microsoft (bad idea.) The third possibility is for the company to not follow the leader and break out like Apple into some other areas.

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Tough times ahead - Microsoft planning its own hardware.

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@ Susan

Hmm. You have a point. Leadership can turn fortunes for organizations.

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@adeniji...so if operators want to get into the business of tablet, or any IOT (internet of things) devices, Nokia would be a trusted partner

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Will that Microsift-Nokia alliance still hold?

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@Susan-I am not so sure,its something u can blame just at ELOP.He's not that bad.

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@Junko: Don't all handset manufacturers now have good relationships with the carriers? I don't see how Nokia is standing out in that..

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@tech4people: I agree without, this is another good point to highlight, for example contexts for Symbian are really rare, then why people have to develop by using that platform?

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"Nokia's biggest strength is its relationship with operators", isnt the same case with Apple also ?

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Junko: there are advantages to vertical integration. Even though Nokia missed the double-SIM trend, that capability must have some value

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Any global operators, if given a choice, would like to work with Nokia and buy their phones over other non-brand name Android phones

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@Junko

in what other area do you think Nokia can re-invest itself

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@all, I am totally convinced that if Nokia look at the past will find the solution it needed for a successful future

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you know, one thing we are forgetting is this: Nokia's biggest strength is its relationship with operators

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@Junko: I mostly agree with your viewpoints. I also like your thinking. I share the view that Nokia might reinvent itself, as so many times before. My idea of the fall of Nokia points at the actual leadership, most precisely at Elop. I truly believe if Elop would be the one leaving Nokia, the company would revive like a Phoenix. What do you think of this? 

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@Bolaji-Yeah what happened to Motorla Mobility? Is it still in the handset business? No clue.Honestly.

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Microsoft has started building its own hardware, will it impact Nokia too ?

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I agree with you on that Wale, the question of quality is really big one in this matter

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I keep thinking what other strength Nokia has that it can use to its advantage

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@Taimoor-Good points.Most OEMs are not tied to any one Vendor.So I don't see how Nokia's demise will affect them much(after all its not like ppl are gonna stop buying phones).

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@Junko - Can you please tell us, would nokia continue with
produce of mobile phone? If yes, what strategy do they have
on that? Take into consideration -raw material and also
21st century network devices compatibility with low cost phone

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I love Nokia 808 --- but I don't think one single advanced feature would save Nokia

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It can reinvent itself as you pointed out but I also think that the market is too dynamic for the kind of cost-cutting reorganization it is doing. That won't be enough to help it regain market share. It didn't work for Motorola Mobility.

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@Bolaji: it seems the picture looks very bad for the whole Nokia ecosystem. Could suppliers try to move their business by making agreement with other vendors as Samsung or LG? Is it feasible?

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@ Bolaji

And this supplier dilemma will make things difficult for Nokia in its journey to the way up

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@Junko, do you think some Nokia phone having app to be able to ping with blackberry a good idea and what could be the effect of this on sales of nokia phones

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@All-As far as Apps go,its all a question of incentives.as an app developer I dont see enough incentives to develop an app for Symbian phones today.Atleast wid Apple and Android u have a HUge market to target.

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@Junko what do you think about Nokias new release Nokia 808...do you think 41MP camera will attract buyers ?

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Junko: I agree--looking beyond handsets makes sense. Is the hybrid small/tablet big/smartphone and area in whihc Nokia could prosper?

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@Bolaji: Aren't these suppliers also working with other OEMs? They shouldn't be dependent on just one principal.

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@Adeniji, thanks. market is getting hotter in those places unless someone come out with extremly low cost and top quality to compete well

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Unfortunately, that's the truth...but what do you think Nokia can do next?

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The bottom line of the current situation it seems is that suppliers to Nokia are going to get hammered for the next few years. As Nokia's sales have been falling so have the fortunes of these companies. That's going to remain the case for the companies that stick with Nokia through all these.

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@taimoorZ, I think there is some truth to that... but again, I have to go back to my original theory. They were too slow to see the emerging trend in the feature phone market. period.

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@Susan, is Nokia pulling better than RIM or in the opposite case?

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Both have lagged behind in the samrtphones and have given leeway to Samsung and LG to surge ahead

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@Suzan I agree with you, two different situations , two different companies

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This is the first time I have heard that not having dual SIMs was a major contributor to Nokia's current problems. 

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@Barbara: exactly, it was their original offer, but following steps made didn't have a good strategy, they have tried to replace Symbian by WinOS and now it seems their doing a step back...and QT...any comments about?

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@Junko what do you think about the recently launched 41MP camera based mobile phone ? Do you think with this release Nokia will capture the market ?

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@Wale, Good question.

Double sims are really sell like hot cake in the south band most of the developing countries but its a lot of competition between Nokia and the so -called  china phones especially Techno phones

 

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Nokia will merge or breakup.

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@nemos, boy, that's a tough question. I think they need to seriously look beyond handsets. I am actually very disappointed that they weren't asked by Microsoft to go with the tablet

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@Susan, Why?

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@Prabhakar: I don't believe Nokia and RIm are in the same sinking boat.

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I think the turning point in the case of Nokia was the fact that they were too complacent with their products and did not want to have out of the box innovative products. This applies to touch screens, dual sims etc..

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I would go back to something Junko said earlier about how Nokia has reinvented itself several times in the past. We should note that Apple did the same. The company is not merely a PC vendor anymore. It has changed dramatically into a consumer electronics company. If Apple can do it, perhaps so can Nokia. The question, though, is which market should it be looking at.

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Junko--great point about suppliers and turnkey solutions. Can you cite an example?

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that is correct @anandvy

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@Junko, Can you forecast what will come next for Nokia ?

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that would have been awesome

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By not adopting Android Nokia helped both Samsung an LG to conquer smartphone market...

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had Nokia adopted Android, they may have been swallowed by other Android same old same old OEMs...but that said, Nokia could have been the NUMBER ONE quality Androdi phone vendor

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@Dave: I agree with you and in my opinion this is one of the key for explaining Android successfull...

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Thanks, @Junko, and @Bolaji. 

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@anandvy, that's a tough question

 

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@Junko, where is marekt strenght for Double sim-card phone presently?
And i think those markets for dual-sim already crowded with phones from
China. How do you think Nokia could compete with them?
Produce a very lower cost ordinary phone?

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 Junko, My questions are

1. Can you say that Nokia and RIM are in the same sinking boat today?

2. Can the suppliers adopt the same policy of "Share of business" as the buyers to spread thin their business risk when one of their buyers suddenly goes bust?

3. Is Nokia's survival as a company is solely dependent on its continued sucess in Mobile business or there are some other supporting businesses?

 

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@Junko do you think it was wrong strategy by Nokia not to adopt Android OS ? 

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Thank you all for your patience. Please send in your questions as well as comments. Junko will try to answer as many as she can and EBN editors will also chime in. We also welcome your own viewpoints as well.

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Wagas Hold your Question for a while

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Is this post getting through.  Website not responsive.

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But if you happen to be a supplier, it may be high time to think about bringing a set of really innovative -- and cost effective -- turnkey solutions to Nokia's attention

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First, what does the current situation at Nokia mean for its suppliers and contractors

I think many suppliers would be scared to keep long term agreements with Nokia as its future isnt bright. Distributors wont like to buy too much stock and would prefer something sort of just in time

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Symbian is much more complicated to use for developers compared to what is being used today. 

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In other words, purely bad news for suppliers?

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Could Nokia leap ahead, then, with a better OS? Wasn't Symbian their original offering?

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both are good questions, Bolaji. I don't think anybody can fix the current situation for suppliers

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@All: Winphone is not bad, but have you ever experienced how poor is APIsets comparing for example Symbian or Android for developers? Any thoughts about?

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apparently, Nokia trouble is mostly due the market shift they haven't been able to predict 

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I think we all need to think of the global market ... of course when we don't live in Asia, it's hard to do...but think about it, ChinaMobile alone has 660 million subscribers! 660 million!

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Junko, I have to open this up to our readers in a few minutes but I want to ask two key questions in the meantime. First, what does the current situation at Nokia mean for its suppliers and contractors and second, what does/can Nokia do to get back on track?

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Apple had iTunes and touch screen...that's it... all the others device manufacturers sat by and waiting to see...then it was too late...until Android...and now hopefully Microsoft

 

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Actually, I happen to think Nokia's Windows phone is not bad

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@WaqasAltaf: you are right, as consequence people have decided to buy products from FarEast, for example and cheaper smartphone, despite the quality; I am wondering if this is an additional cause for putting Nokia in trouble.

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honestly speaking, even had Nokia moved to Android, I don't think they had much chance

User Rank   Blogger

Sorry for the latency ,I was confused with the time

User Rank   Supply Network Guru

@barbara, it's both innovation and product

User Rank   Blogger

exactly, Dave. I am not simply talking about hardware

User Rank   Blogger

Hello to all ,

User Rank   Supply Network Guru

Junko: Nokia still seems to have strong brand identity, but I get the feeling users are waiting for the next great thing. Is that an innovation or product?

User Rank   Blogger

I am talking about the integrated hardware and software. Nokia thought they can do it better than anyone else; but MediaTek pretty much ate their lunch

User Rank   Blogger

I don't think hardware features were the issues.  Nokia made some innovative devices and were full of features.

 

User Rank   Supply Network Guru

Most consumers look for cost. They can compromise a bit on quality. I mean most. Not all

User Rank   Supply Network Guru

it's not just raw material

User Rank   Blogger

PLEASE HOLD ALL QUESTIONS UNTIL I GIVE THE GO-AHEAD. THANK YOU.

User Rank   Blogger

Remember? Nokia didn't let go of their own ASIC teams until mid 2000

User Rank   Blogger

@ Junko

Oh ok. I got it. Its true that if everyone is taking advantage of cheap raw material, Nokia shouldnt lag behind

User Rank   Supply Network Guru

Wouldn't you contribute the lack of a well defined App Store use and developer experience as part of Nokia's issue...Apple had the iTunes platform to leverage and provided a revenue stream for developers and a easy, simple, but powerful App platform??

User Rank   Supply Network Guru

Okay, Junko. But they are not that integrated. Nokia does not make its own chipsets and it is now outsourcing manufacturing.

User Rank   Blogger

there is very little that Nokia can add in terms of value -- excetp for its own brand

User Rank   Blogger

Junko: got it. Make vs. buy. So they could have developed more efficient, less costly phones had they worked with suppliers?

User Rank   Blogger

@ Junko

can u please elaborate on that ? was it not taking into account consumers or supply chain ?

User Rank   Supply Network Guru

and develop their own hardware and software package -- a turnkey solution -- and give it to any OEMs in China, they can make feature phones a lot cheaper than Nokia

User Rank   Blogger

It's really important for this discussion for participants to hold questions and all comments unless absolutely necessary until we've opened the floor. I would like to do this in about 10 minutes but Junko has to set the stage with her introductory remarks. Please hold all questions and comments for now. Thank you.

User Rank   Blogger

someone like MediaTek or Mstar came along -- they are both from Taiwan

User Rank   Blogger

@Wale-thats a tough sell today-Nokia is very good in super-cheap and High Quality phones.only issue is margins are very slim there.

User Rank   Supply Network Guru

We are talking about procurement here, right? I think the fact that Nokia was trying to develop everything on their own terms is the biggest mistake

User Rank   Blogger

Hi everyone

User Rank   Supply Network Guru

I have a question for Junko/Bolaji (and everyone of course...): aparte Apple, it seems market leadership is currently for vendors which are focusing on products instead of products+OS; is it a possible key for explaining good position achieved by Samsung in front of Nokia difficulties a much effort from them spent in products and OS?

User Rank   Supply Network Guru

Junko, As Barbara was asking, what else did they do wrong?

User Rank   Blogger

Where in smartphone market do you think Nokia phone is pulling
more sales than its rivals?

User Rank   Supply Network Guru

Please hold your questions for her unless it is directed to EBN editors.

User Rank   Blogger

Because they wanted to do all that on their own terms through their own processes

User Rank   Blogger

@houngbo-No Iphones dont have dual sim capability-Samsung and LG are the market leaders here.

User Rank   Supply Network Guru

I will answer or try to answer any questions posed to Junko until she's finished making her points.

User Rank   Blogger

That's my main point. They lost control of procuremtn of the most cost effective chips, the most cost effective software, the most cost effective designs

User Rank   Blogger

But do iPhones have double SIM capability?

User Rank   Supply Network Guru

Okay, please go on.

User Rank   Blogger

Nokia was already losing control over its bread and butter feature phone market

User Rank   Blogger

No, that comes much later

User Rank   Blogger

OK. Strike one. Did they improve on the trend one they got it?

User Rank   Blogger

okay, i,m sorry for that

User Rank   Supply Network Guru

Junko, Does this have anything to do with where Nokia is located and the decision making process where everything is referred first to the headquarters?

User Rank   Blogger

But Junko do feel the the biggest mistake of Nokia was not adopting Android ?

User Rank   Supply Network Guru

Nokia missed the boat

User Rank   Blogger

@Adeniji i think you need to wait a bit...

 

User Rank   Supply Network Guru

without a long conference call, delayed decision making, etc.

User Rank   Blogger

@barbara-see what happens typically is people like to switch operators(depending on who gives them the best deal).for this they use dual sim phones on one device(very common in India and China today)

User Rank   Supply Network Guru

What Junko is saying is that Nokia didn't see the dual SIM cards phones as a rival until too late.

User Rank   Blogger

Anyway, if you are a much smaller company, spot a trend, you are more likely to respond to small changes in the market much more quickly

User Rank   Blogger

@ junko, I agree with you on that

 

User Rank   Supply Network Guru

no, Nokia was LATE in getting into the double SIM card phone

User Rank   Blogger

are you saying Nokia going into double sims was a mistake

User Rank   Supply Network Guru

It's a lot to take on -- for a handset company; but Nokia did everything from defining the spec, developing software, selecting chips, integrating software and hardware...

User Rank   Blogger

These are basically phones that have slots for dual SIM cards, enabling the owner to have two different phone lines and number on the same device.

User Rank   Blogger

@Bolaji you are right, many people here prefer double SIM, They maintain different SIm for messaging and for making calls.

User Rank   Supply Network Guru

Meanwhile, Nika was mired in the development of so-called feature phone experience -- both hardware and software included

User Rank   Blogger

I am a fan of basic phones...what's the double SIMM and how did Nokia stumble?

 

User Rank   Blogger

anyway, there are a few reasons. First, Nokia didn't think much of dual SIM cards trend. they thought they knew this feature phone market better than anyone else

User Rank   Blogger

The double SIM trend hasn't spread widely in the West but it is a part of daily life for many people in emerging economies.

User Rank   Blogger

Junko what exactly do you mean by victim of its own process?

User Rank   Supply Network Guru

Dave, Correct. Feature phone is industry speak for basic phones.

User Rank   Blogger

in this context, I am talking about basic phones

 

User Rank   Blogger

I suspect you are referring to its ability to retain the leading market share it had n the basic phones market.

User Rank   Blogger

Take an example of double SIM cards trend in feature phones in China

User Rank   Blogger

@Junko-Sorry to interrupt but by Feature Phones do u mean Basic Phones or Advanced Smartphones?

User Rank   Supply Network Guru

Nokia is a big company, it does a ton of processes, and it does it well

but it is not exactly the fastest company to respond to what may appear to be small changes on the surface

 

User Rank   Blogger

How's that Junko? How did the failure in the feature phone market wound Nokia?

User Rank   Blogger

As my Taiwan source was saying, Nokia was a victim of its own process

 

User Rank   Blogger

Dave, I apologize. That's related. Let's wait, though, for Junko to finish her point.

User Rank   Blogger

especially in China

User Rank   Blogger

Where Nokia truly failed is in its bread and butter business -- feature phones

User Rank   Blogger

I meant Lumia...not Lumina..sorry

User Rank   Supply Network Guru

A lot of people equate Nokia's downfall to the company's inability to catch up wiht the smartphone business...but I think that's missing the point

User Rank   Blogger

Dave, We'll do a separate Live Chat on Microsoft. For now, we'll stick to Nokia.

User Rank   Blogger

good point

Anyway, let me finish what I started saying

User Rank   Blogger

Susan, That's fine.

User Rank   Blogger

@JUnko: Before being a paper business, Nokia manufactured rubber boots, that was the very start of Nokia. As you said very well, Nokia has reinvented itself many, many, many times; and it might do it again. (Sorry, Bolaji, I had to reply to her Q)

User Rank   Blogger

I would like to see the Microsoft-Nokia partnership succeed and provide more options in the mobile space.  The Lumina devices look nice...but Microsoft is releasing it's new Phone 8 platform in the Fall of this year.  The upgrade is so dramatic that the new Lumina devices that are out now will not be able to utlize the Microsoft OS.  

User Rank   Supply Network Guru

they are based in Taiwan

User Rank   Blogger

What this means is that a lot of companies' bread and butter hangs on what Nokia does next.

User Rank   Blogger

I was talking to one of my sources yesterday... a company that makes a ton of mobile chips for mobile handsets today

User Rank   Blogger

Just some background. In 2011, Nokia had more than $50 billion in annual sales and its costs of goods sold is still an impressive $35 billion.

User Rank   Blogger

Because that may give us some clues what Nokia must do next

User Rank   Blogger

OK. Clearly, mobile is challenging--RIM is also struggling. Where should Nokia look for its next reinvention?

User Rank   Blogger

Anyway, if I may, I would like to start this chat, talking about what went wrong with Nokia

User Rank   Blogger

ah, good point

User Rank   Blogger

We used to import  29" picture rubes from Nokia in 90's

User Rank   Supply Network Guru

To back up that point, I would like to note Nokia is still a very BIG company and what happens to the company will impact many of the companies in its ecosystem.

User Rank   Blogger

@Junko: From what I know Nokia was into rubber business.

User Rank   Supply Network Guru

But of course, for the purpose of this LIVE CHAT, let's stick to the mobile business Nokia is in for now

User Rank   Blogger

Anyway, what I am saying is that Nokia doesn't have to stick to what it has been doing in the last couple of decades

it can re-invent itself again

User Rank   Blogger

Correct. It used to be in the wood and papermill business. That was its root from the 19th Century, I believe.

User Rank   Blogger

If I remember correclty, the company was in the paper business originally. Correct, Susan?

User Rank   Blogger

Hi all

User Rank   Supply Network Guru

Of course, we will @Bolaji

User Rank   Supply Network Guru

As many of you already know, Nokia is one company that has reinvented itself so many times

 

User Rank   Blogger

OK. Let me start. Why Nokia is not dead

User Rank   Blogger

You too, @Wale Baker!

User Rank   Supply Network Guru

Hi Junko--can you share your views as to why not?

User Rank   Blogger

Please hold your comments and questions until we give the go-ahead.

User Rank   Blogger

@Junko, very correct!

User Rank   Supply Network Guru

My last hello to @HH, and @anandvy. Let's wait until Bolaji gives us green light to jump into the floor. :)

User Rank   Blogger

@Junko why do you think its exaggerated, Nokias stocks are trading at life time low 

User Rank   Supply Network Guru

Welcome Susan - you are right there - in Finland- on the spot where the problem is!

User Rank   Supply Network Guru

And yet, I think it's worrying to all of us -- we all want to know what went wrong and what is next

 

User Rank   Blogger

Welcome @HH

User Rank   Supply Network Guru

Hi, SF!

User Rank   Supply Network Guru

I was really confused about the date :)

User Rank   Supply Network Guru

I will also chime in with some comments.

User Rank   Blogger

OK. As some of you on this chat already mentioned, I think the death of Nokia is greatly exaggerated

 

User Rank   Blogger

Glad to be here, it has been a while now!

User Rank   Supply Network Guru

hello everyone.

User Rank   Supply Network Guru

Hello, everyone!

User Rank   Supply Network Guru

As usual, Junko will start with some introductory remarks. Please hold off on your questions until we give the go-ahead.

User Rank   Blogger

I have been covering consumer electronics for a while; and Nokia is in fact especially near and dear to my heart

 

User Rank   Blogger

@Susan-Very true.Where there is Life there is Hope!Nokia is far from dead!

User Rank   Supply Network Guru

Junko Yoshida has been covering the electronics industry for more than 20 years and spent a major part of that period reporting on the consumer electronics industry. She has been reporting on the companies that manufacture the products as well as their components suppliers. She was until recently editor in chief for print and online at EE Times and has recently assumed the position of chief of international correspondents for the publication. Junko is well positioned to comment on the industry.

User Rank   Blogger

Hello, Bolaji, Barbara, Taimoor, Wale, Prabhakar, Dave, and everyone else about to eneter the chat

User Rank   Blogger

Hi, all. I am happy to be here.

User Rank   Blogger

Hello Everyone

User Rank   Supply Network Guru

Welcome to today's Live Chat. First, a few words of introduction about Junko.

User Rank   Blogger

@Tech4... And yes, the Midnight Sun is amazing, very, very beautiful. I wrote about Midsummer as part of one of my blogs, I believe. 

User Rank   Blogger

Hi everyone. This is Barb, and Bolaji will get things rolling in one minute. Bolaji?

 

User Rank   Blogger

Hi everyone! :)

User Rank   Supply Network Guru

Good afternoo ( here)

User Rank   Supply Network Guru

@Tech4...: Well, yes. Finland has not been indifferent to the latest news. There is some gloomy mood here and there. But still, Finns say: "Nokia is not dead yet!", despite there is more pesimism than times before, you see. 

User Rank   Blogger

Hi Everyone!

User Rank   Supply Network Guru

Good morning, afternoon, evening everybody

 

User Rank   Supply Network Guru

@Tech4...But you know what I think: Where there is still life, there is hope.

User Rank   Blogger

This is Bolaji Ojo, editor in chief of EBN. We will begin our Live Chat with Junko Yoshida, chief of international correspondents at EE Times and former editor in chief of the publication in five minutes. Please standby.

User Rank   Blogger

@Susan-wow! u r lucky 24 hours of non-stop Sun! Amazing!!

User Rank   Supply Network Guru

@Tech4... (why you always choose long user names? :p ) That trip didn't happen yet, it's for Oct or Nov. I am back from Sweden, though. 

User Rank   Blogger

@Juko: Yes, I am in Finland. Celebrating Midsummer and the Midnight Sun starting tomorrow until Sunday. :) 24 hours of light, non-stop. 

User Rank   Blogger

@Susan-Have the job cuts annouced by Nokia over the last few months affected unemployment/mood in Finland today?

User Rank   Supply Network Guru

@Susan-Yes ur perspective on this issue will be most critical.

User Rank   Supply Network Guru

@Susan-r u back from Greece?

User Rank   Supply Network Guru

So, you are in Finland?! Far out.

 

User Rank   Blogger

Here, from Nokia's homeland of Finland I am looking forward to this chat-presentation. And well, the feeling is that Nokia is not dead yet.  

User Rank   Blogger

Lovely to have you here, Junko. And the chat works perfectly. :)

User Rank   Blogger

Hi, Susan!

 

User Rank   Blogger

Hello, Junko. I am testing, too. 

User Rank   Blogger

Hello! I am tesing if this is working!

User Rank   Blogger
EBN Dialogue / LIVE CHAT
EBN Dialogue enables you to participate in live chats with notable leaders and luminaries. Open to the entire EBN community of electronics supply chain experts, these conversations see ideas shared, comments made, and questions asked and answered in real time. Listed below are upcoming and archived chats. Stay tuned and join in!
Archived Dialogues
Live Chat 4/3: Business Networks Emerge as Procurement's Future
Rachel Spasser, SVP and CMO at Ariba, discusses the key elements of a strong business community.
Live Chat 3/27: Finding the Procurement and Technology Sweet Spot
Increasingly, choosing the right software and technology tools is critical to empowering procurement to realize strategic advantages.

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