How can big data be translated into "big money"?

It was great speaking with all you guys here.

Take care and Have a great weekend!!

Regards

Ashish.

In the Autospace-its quite possible to get high single Digit returns YoY for most investors;thats how much growth is happening there today.The Aspirational level of Indians is on the up bigtime.Everyone wants to own a car today and they have much higher savings(Than most Westerners to boot).The only wrinkle is High gasoline/Diesel costs.If Those two become cheaper (as Crude Oil continues to correct and correct sharply);I can see Auto sales picking up bigtime,Double Digit Sales growth is highly-highly possible

AS far as Investors go,it depends on what kinds of returns you really are chasing in India.

Thanks everyone

Thanks again all! I especially like our little side chats on food, music (thanks Alex Wolfe) and cell phones (Ariella and eemom). Have a great weekend (dinner, snack, whatever.)

Taking up from my point again-So its very easy for the Chinese princelings(who are part of the Govt) to steal all the IP they want.China's quite an expert at that...

Thanks @Bolaji. We will all join. Just stop talking about food unless you bring the snacks. :D

Bye all

@Marc, My apologies. I guess launch at the Chinese restaurant (it's cheaper and they have lunch special) and dinner in the Indian restaurant (sit down and relax).

Thanks all for your time!

cheers.

@Balaji: LOL!

@Ashish: I didn't. Bolaji and Marc did. :( Me too here. It's time to grab some dinner. Thanks all and see you next time. 

bye

Thank you all and good hunting (for money!).

Please before we all log off, I would like to invite you to another chat we are having next week. Matthew Sheerin, an analyst with extensive experience in the electronics supply chain will join us on Tuesday for a live chat. I worked with Matt years ago and you'll enjoy the chat. He knows his onion and we can benefit from his knowledge. Please join us Aug. 23.

Correct  Tech4People.

I've seen in China the goverment to hire 300 Engineers and load the factory with equipment in less than 1 month.

@Balaji: That's a wise answer! You have no enneny!

EBN, Thanks to all for live chatting, it was very great.

@Susan-Please don't bring up food,I am forever hungry!!!

Bolaji: I meant the restaurant, not the guest!

@Mario-Nobody seems to realise this critical fact-While in India the Judiciary is independent of the Govt in China its actually a part of the Govt.So the people who run the Govt directly control the Judiciary.

That's an amazing percentage

Thanks to the organizers for the great discussion as always..

thanks all for participating.

@Marc, Why pick? I'll take both the Indian and the Chinese. They are not at war and I am not playing favorites in my business. I just want to sell my widgets or get someone to make them for me at a cheaper price. Three is company in my opinion.

nuggets of information=makes me hungry at this time @Bolaji

Thanks all great learning experience

Thank You for answering all my questions and for this great discussion

Thank you, Bolaji.

Thanks for the great chat!

@marc: Neither :)

84% is a very impressive rate of growth!

Thank you all for been in this nice and interesting conversation .

@Pocharle if we are looking to compete with china i think government should do something.

For those interested, here are some nuggets of information about India's growth in electronics. The country's export in electronics grew 84 percent the April-July period. India is growing faster and it's already exporting electronics.

Thanks again, all. To Marc's questions: seafood, of course.

thanks Tech4people

Chinese, for now!

@Mario-In fact India definitely scores higher than China in one major area-Protection of IP

@Bolaji: You also need to consider that India has a great divide in terms of income disparity and has one of the highest unemployment rates

@mario-India is way more welcoming of Foriegn Talent,Capital than China

I would like to wrap this up by asking the key question no one's asked: you are taking someone to dinner in San Francisco: Indian or Chinese?

thanks Barbara, Bolaji and everyone

@saranyatil Unfortunately, government typically only helps to slow down processes.

One thing I'll like to ask, China imports talent from different countries and they welcome foreing industries, what is the situation in India?

@tech4people: coming back to cars market, you are right India is becoming a big producers, but it seems the sector isn't so good for investors, as per discussion held till now.

Ashish: is there a regional dynamic at place here, do you think? It's a big country. Particularly on infrastructure questions, regional governments seeking to attract investment might be freer in India than in China to invest in creating infrastructure for business. O

We should start wrapping up. I learned a lot here today--thanks Marc, Bolaji and our readers.

@ Taimoorz/Ashish Government should be instrumental and speed up the process.

@Ashish, I don't expect India to become a serious challenger to China in the short term. But on a longer-term basis, India will eventually attract the resources it needs to solve the problems you identified. Also, I know the country has not been standing still. The evolution hasn't been as rapid as the one China engineered but it is taking place and will only accelerate in future.

@Marc-I agree that India makes the best Small cars in the world and is by far the Small Car capital of the world,this is where Govt policy is a boost.

No no sorry my mistake

@Ashish: Totally agree with you here...a solid infrastructure which is conducive for businesses and government policies that encourage investment are exactly what India needs

@Nemos, Did I miss a question you asked?

@tech4people: interesting feedback Ashish, it reports a trend really opposite to on going discussion.

No one's mentioned yet that India makes cars. That's a huge demonstration of industrial and supply capacity. 

Ashish: do you sense any interest/advantages/motion on those fronts?

@ Barbara Good Point once the setup materialize i think EMS Factories staring will eventually take place.

@Ashish, I think Ashish just brought up an important point and one of the reasons why electronics company may be hesitant to jump into the India market. India is notorious for taking two steps forward and one or more back. Companies need a consistent environment and strategic policies that don't change from one day to the next. India is politically fractured and it is not unlikely that a new governmetn might reverse something the prior government introduced.

Telecommunication manufacturing is grown particulary in the base station market. Both Nokiasiemens and Ericsson have their manufacturing facilities in India.

Bolaji ?

Unless we see changes on either of these fronts I really don't see how India can challenge China.

Regards

Ashish.

@Bolaji thx for that.

Marc--India has definitely worked to change that perception, and maybe building fabs will help turn the tide. What about EMS factories, though?

@tech4people Indecision by whom?

I agree with Ashish

@mfbertozzi, India is putting emphasis on telecommunications equipment currently. As previously noted this is partly driven by security concerns. Other areas are power supplies, environmental or green products and automotive.

Guys,

The biggest problems in India are the following-Infrastructure and policy indecision

Regards

Ashish

@mario8a: I would put "Safety of Goods" under law and order situation and certainly China has more stability, safety and a better law and order situation than India

Ok, Bolaji!

TaimoorZ, Indeed, I agree.

@Hospice_Houngbo, Please check out my latest blog on the subject. There are links in the article to India's incentive package.

@Nemos: I think that creating a distribution structure depends a lot on the kinds of resources available to businesses

infrastucture for distribution, that was the topic I was referring, Thanks FLYINGSCOT.

Now, when I talk to some Electronic Distributors, one of they main concern is the Safety of Goods, would anybody have an idea if this is a problem in India biggger than China?

Avent, Arrow, etc: What I think we're returning to is this cliche, that Barbara started this converstaion pointing out, that in the eyes of the world's electronics investors, China is a giant labor force and India is a giant brain. And that's not quite so. 

@Jay_Bond, That is the third strong leg India currently stands on -- the expatriate Silicon Valley Indians returning to the country. As US immigration has tightened the number of Indian engineers and designers returning home has increased and they will play a greater role in setting up the fabless chip vendors that will help establish the country in semiconductor. By the way, that's a strategy Chinese design houses used effectively (Please see the recent report completed by EE Times Confidential.)

Interesting point about distrbution. The industrial guys--Avnet, Arrow--haven't done a lot in India while Flextronics has set up a logistics hub there for after-sales service and support. The industrials have focused on engineering resources in India, which makes sense...

@ Flyingscot  infrastructure for distribution is something that could be built quickly.

@Bolaji: "India is angling for a bigger piece of the electronics manufacturing market and is offering semiconductor suppliers incentives": What is in that "incentives" package?

Better roads and affordable cars would be big business for India to serve their own market...question is how do they pay for that

@Ariella: Yes, the English small talk is an example in classes on how other countries do business/. 

Marc--I think that is a good observation (Silicon Valley/India ties) and can only be an advantage for India.

India needs better infrastructure for distribution.

@Susan: you are right, I am in line with.

@Marc, I belive you are correct. The relationship with Silicon Valley and India is gaining a lot of momentum and should help

@Mario8a, Sorry, India doesn't have the same level of distribution channels it needs to get goods in and out. That's part of the problem the country has to overcome.

Would the Indian government see an influx in inflation with major manufacturing taking hold?

Silicon valley is also very Asian based

@Marc (Bolaji): as per what you have experienced also recently, for investors, which sectors are currently preferred? We have discussed about mobile, electronics, but we are speaking about consumers or OEM for vendors? Other segment, for example, civil infrastructure, imo, could be a great field for India on which play the leadership game with China.

@mario8a Distribution channel is looking positive for now.

closeness. typo

@pocharle, I believe I addressed your question about India's physical resources earlier. The resources are available but the support infrastructure is weak.

Oh dear, the hippie thing was a joke. But speaking of California, here's the real issue, I think -- that India is building relationships with silicon valley that are very different than China's. Silicon Valley has very strong ties to India, and I wonder -- and would love to hear opinions -- about whether that cultural coseness isn't a competitive advantage for Indian electronics. I mean, Silicon Valley is a very Indian place. that matters, right? Or am I being simplistic.

is India more inward looking and China more outward looking?

I think distribution channels will be the key for development, China has it, India has it too?

@mfbertozzi: learning about each other's culture on how to do business will help either competition or collaboration

@Marc: Agreed, but as I said "democracy is a more favourable ground to safe investment", and that is what some investors favour the most

@

 Great point

@Susan but it could be an opportunity for language instructors -- just like many Americans learned Japanese in the late 80s.

@Bolaji Exactly. Managing people and managing a plant are two different worlds

@Bolaji I know they have a huge population, but are the physical resources available in India to become a major player?

Hello World

@Susan, would the Finnish small talk class be an example? I'm not sure all the subtleties of culture can be conveyed in classes.

Mar is Hippie?

There is not many forums/stage where it can gather different mix of enterprenuers. May be creating such venue could be the fist step to take on china.

@Ariella: It's actually a good opportunity for lanaguage schools and China is a great client for them. 

I'm from California.

Marc--expatriot, maybe, but hippie?

@Ariella: Languages schools have thought about cross-cultural buisness. Some have developed a cross-culture course for companies. 

I said in a blog today not to take lightly India's determination to become a powerhouse in electronics manufacturing. I still believe folks tend to overlook India. The country has several other reasons for seeking local production and a major factor is in terms of its military exposure. India shares a long border with China with which it previously fought a war and is certainly in a messy relationship with Pakistan. It also has internal problems that haven't been resolved. The Indian military does not like the country's dependence on foreign IT hardware. They want to break that pattern and I think eventually they will.

Democracy: Call me a hippie, but I can think of few examples of democracies underperforming autocracies over, say, a generation.

I think it is not really good state. Even many of my collegues want to start companies but they always take back step because the terms are completely controlled by VC's

China unashamedley encouraged growth...even for the select few and to the detriment of others

"Democracy affecting growth? That's paradoxal, don't you think?" @Hospice all companies needs a stable and secure environment. That kind of stability is beneficial only in democracy.  

More what I mean to say is that there is a difference between nations and industries. "India taking on China" is a geopolitical, economic dynamic, with impact on jobs, etc. Lenovo taking on Bharti is a financial, business world dynamic. But both are "India taking on China"

I agree that India's democracy isn't neccessarily an advantage and actually some would consider it to be a disadvantage.

All that India needs is more and more enterprenuers and at the same it needs huge government support to provide the necessary land and other facilities

@FLYINGSCOT: "India values greatly democracy and that affects growth": I thought demacracy is a favourable ground to eceonomy growth?

@Susan: great Susan ! Do you think they are interested in cross-cultural collaboration instead of competition?

Good point electrynx. Does anyone know what the state of venture cpaital invesemtn is in India?

I think demoncracy in India will hold its growth back vs China

I think it is not just the technical talent, India needs more n more enterprenuers who can be part of the complete ecosystem to build the companies who can develop the complete parts starting from screw to an high end electronic equipment.

there huge demand for semiconductor industry in India

Nemos: It's like what Bolaji just said about Intel. China wants the 4billion factory built, because that's a lot of jobs. Intel's Chinese competition might prefer it's government not offer the usual incentives, tax breaks, etc, to make that happen. 

@Susan that's an optimistic way of looking at it. Sometimes there are significant clashes between cultures that get in the way of working together.

The lack of democracy in China hasn't hurt the country. Is it a factor? Yes. Do companies focus on it today as a determining factor? No. India is not going to sell itself as the world's biggest democracy to attract business. It will have to be viable on other levels.

@Bolaji: I see!

Don't see the paradox...please explain

Semiconductor salary is nearly 2x to 5x that of software industry...

@FLYINGSCOT: Democracy affecting growth? That's paradoxal, don't you think?

@mario8a, Typical average salary for IT fresher start from 5Laks i.e around 10000$ per year...

@Bolaji Exactly. Managing people and managing a plant are two different worlds

In IC design and service salary is about the same for entry level

@mfbertozzi-This is an opportunity for cross-cultural lessons for India and China, 

@Flyingscot: Democracy is another great edge that India has over China

I know and Ive been in China many times, but I don't know India.. can anybody tell me if the salary for the force labor is better than China?

in the South of China where Foxconn is located people is asking for more benefits, I wonder if India is taking advantage of this and advertising better conditions ofr workers or benefits than China?

@Hospice Houngbo, Intel first invested in India early in 2001. It hired more than 2,000 engineers in the country and continues to be an investor in the country. Putting a $3 billion to $4 billion fab there, though, is another matter.

@ Susan Nokia s products are well marketed in the Asian market but in between due to huge losses Loads of resources were removed.

India values greatly democracy and that affects growth

I think an important process as emerging business in/for India, has to consider also local culture. General feeling is local culture is closer to Western attitude than China. Is it right? It could be a competitve advantage for them?

@Flyinscot, You are right. The initial response to India's request for "expression of interest" in fabs hasn't been encouraging but I believe this is part of the challenge for India. It is possible some company might still take them up but the incentive would have to be greater than what is on offer now.

@Marc: Which semiconductor suppliers would likely take the investment lead in India in a short term? 

I wonder about the business culkture of India vs China and what motivates each...I believe that is a big factor

Thanks Bolaji. It seems to me the Chinese government is one of the driving forces behind China's growth, particularly in green technology. (Which makes sense for China vis a vis pollution.) I wonder if India could leapfrog in some way--clean water technology--whihc would also help pave the way for better infrastructure.

"What "China" wants may not be the same thing as what a Chinese manufacturer wants."

For example ?

Japan investing in Idia makes sense, but would add lead time to receiving shipments due to greater distance of travel versus China.

FlyingScott: And why not, do you think?

@Tirlapur, I refer to Toshiba and others, including automotive companies. The big Japanese companies have extensive local presence in India but they are willing to take this further. Let's not forget that in addition to the possibility of easier manufacturing environment, India also offers the prospects of a giant market even if it's going to be in future.

India was looking to start a semicon fab to address its internal IC demand and wanted partners but that did not seem to receive much interest

Also, I think we need to be careful how we think about China and India, as governments, versus China and India as business environments. What "China" wants may not be the same thing as what a Chinese manufacturer wants.

:) Ariella

Actually, Japan investing in India makes a lot of sense to me.

@Taimoorz It will be threat to china to a greater extent

@Barbara, Government investment is the first step towards bringing Indian infrastructure up to date. But the government is also inviting businesses to partner with it and offering to allow them manage some of these. India is actively recruiting U.S. corporate partners for some of the infrastructure projects.

@Marc, thanks for the response! Good point about China's currency changes

Bolaji makes a key point: this is also a pan-Asian question. Japan has lots of reasons to do business with India and not China. Starting with direct competitive issues.

@Nemos better than having it freeze up

Japan investing in India...that's interesting..should China be worried about it?

@Bolaji when you say Japanese companies are you referring to Toshiba ?

hold on , the message board is on fire.......

@Susan .. Nokia has made huge investments in India already and had built their larget manufacturing facility in chennai many years back.

@Bolaji: That makes sense -what the gov says/.

here's the nut graf on that LG India example: "Electronics India has aggressive plans to invest Rs 138 crore in manufacturing and Rs 240 crore in marketing of home appliances, along with a vast after sales service network"

@Mario8a, Many Japanese companies are investing heavily in India today, partly because they need the market and also because they have run into problems in China. The history of relationship between Japan and China is not very positive and we have seen numerous flare ups that hurt Japanese OEMs. As a result, they are looking into expanding in India.

it will take foreign investment and govt breaks to encourage foreign investment...just like China did

@Barbara: I think they need foreign investment..lots of it..and government policies which can attract foreign investment and maintain investor's confidence in the country

jbond: wouldn't we all like to know, right? Here's a bit of news for you: LG's going long.

http://news.in.msn.com/business/article.aspx?cp-documentid=5375326

(wait! read that later! we want you here now).

@Mario: It seems more likely that Nokia could invest in India.

Sorry...got off on a tangent. Let's take the US out of this. What will it take--foreign investment? government investment? to bring India's infrastructure up to standard?

@ Maria it can be google since motorola has strong base in India and Google too

@pocharle you may be right, with Indian government backing this we never can tell.

@Nemos: in addition to sectors mentioned, do you think India is going to take Cina also for other market segment? For example steelworks should be huge market to achieve.

@Wale Bakare, That's the way the government view things. If they can do well in software development, why shouldn't they get some of the hardware business too?

Which companies have signed on to move to India?

mfbertozzi: that's interesting, and speaks to the infrastructure question. They need to prove that they can reliably keep a factory running on their roads, electrical grid, port system, train system... China's way ahead on that. 

DennisQ: Agreed. But we know China's depressing its currency, and like Bolaji said, it's a decade or more further along in the process of industrialization, and embedding itself in various supply systems, compared to India. So -- lacking data -- I could imagine a situation where Indian companies have a competitive advantage on wages and exchange, if only for their evolutionary state compared to Chinese manufacturing.

@ Pocharle I do agree its a different Ballgame but the dedication and efficiency comes into picture .

for India in order to take over China's bussiness will need some big players on the electronic industry, who will be the strong investors for India?   someone like Microsoft? APPLE?

Before we examine the question if India takes on China,  we must examine the relations between US and China now in Technology sector.

@mfbertozzi, The problem you describe is not peculiar to India. In any nation where wireless handsets and services are not sold as a subscription but is offered a la carte, you could easily build up millions of moribund users who hop from one network to the other. This is a challenge for the local telecom carriers but not for manufacturers. In fact, if people don't use the phones (and if they are cheap enough, which they are) this will only boost sales at OEMs.

@Wale But those are 2 completely different ballgames. Success in one does not necessarily apply to the other

@Wale It really can perform well there is no doubt in that regard.

@Marc- It seems to me more like an opportunity for India. Why readers in India should be offended? 

DQ--you are right--India was the target for awhile becuase of IT outsourcing, and China is now  in manufacturing. I guess it depends on whether the service or manufacturing industries in the US are hurting most..oh wait! Both of them are

@dennisQ, I agree with you. There is already a negative vibe towards India because of all the call centers, and for more jobs to get outsourced there might cause them to be viewed more like China

@Marc, but surely India is not immune to wage/currency issues? Even if wages there aren't a problem at the moment, wouldn't they face the same problems as China in the future?

If Indian can perform well in software development. I cant see reason why, the country cant compete with china in semiconductor sector.

Since it's independence, Indian government has been very strict about imports. I think that has been the foremost reason why local products became so successful

@Marc, @Bolaji:
Today, Telecoms Regulatory Authority of India and Wireless Intelligence, stated an interesting breaking news: India mobile market is inflated by some 250 million inactive connections  that has dampened the growth achievements of many Indian operators. According to that, mobile market and then business in general is coming down.It is necessary a revaluation. Have you same feeling? In your opinion, is it a temporary trend? For how long?

@Sarayantil, I agree India is trying to build out a supply chain competence but this is not something a government or individual company can do by itself. It has taken China years to become the powerhouse it is today and India will have to slowly build and encourage the development of the network of companies that will support the electronics supply chain. It's not enough to just offer incentives if I cannot get the parts I need.

Barbara you might be surprised many companies import parts from China make products and sell it to customers.

@Bolaji, yes, I suppose that could work. But I wonder if other countries would try to take such steps to make imports unattractive, including imports from India.

@Barbara, that's a good point about how India will be viewed by the US... will it be percieved more positively than China, or will it just be dismissed as a slightly different overseas nation we're outsourcing jobs to? I do think there is some negative perception of India already, obviously attempts to relocate customer service call centers to India have not been well-received across-the-board...

I always thought tariffs on imports was a double-edged sword. It will be interesting to see what impact it has for India.

@Barbara:  @Taimoor is right. It's too soon for India to see the big countries as competitors

Marc--spot on. As US citizen in Asia, what are your thoughts?

China has wage issues and currency issues and if India starts seriously getting into electronics manufacturing in a world-beating kind of way, China's government has a new, serious variable to consider in its formula for the future.

Thanks Anandvy--very helpful

@Ariella, They are already doing this. They are increasing tarrifs on imports and cutting taxes on local production. They will run into problems with the WTO on some of these but on others they will force companies to do local production. In addition, they are offering incentives for companies to manufacture locally. One of the new regulations is 100 percent tax-free profit repatriation on goods manufactured locally. That's a great incentive.

@ Anna young With respect to supply chain India is definitely building on its competencies.

Barbara: A key point. It's interesting how we talk about the two behemoth nations, from the US and Europe. China's a threat; India's an opportunity. Do Indian readers feel insulted by this? It's almost like the US is saying not, "great, a partner," but "ooooh, how cute, India has money now"

@Barbara, India sees China as role model. Many people in India appreciate Chinas growth and they are trying to embibe those values

@Marc/Bolaji:How would China be affected then? less revenues or China can still be having her share in the industry?  

Thanks Taimoor!

@Bolaji, saw your response about India's infrastructure which is one of my main concerns with the region from a tech manufacturing standpoint... as you say, India does realize this and they are creating technology parks and all that, but realistically, how and when will we start to see dramatic improvements here? China, for all its flaws, at least has done a good job executing on their infrastructure plans. Also, even if tech parks are created and all that, I'm concerned about transport: obviously the roads/ports are not up to China's standards. Are there plans to address that as well?

@Barbara: I don't think India is at a stage yet that it can view US or China as its competitors

@tirlapur thanks for that info!

The main challenge to manufacturing in India is not just that it is virgin land. The supply chain is not strong enough and is hardly comparable to China's. How can India solve this problem?

The other question I have--and maybe our readers in India can answer--is whether India sees China as a competitor, or the US as a competitor? At first, China was seen as a great opportunity for US companies and now it is the evil job-sucking empire. Will we view India any differently?

@Bolaji are you saying that India will force its own domestic production through high tarrifs on imports?

We have to also analyse critically how Indian has been performing on software technology globally, whether we can benchmark the performance with its proposal to venture into hardware design.

@pocharle @Bolaji: It's like everybody wants a piece of the pie.

saranyatil: exactly

@Barbara, The conversation is changing in India about what should be sold in the country versus what should be made in the country. For electronics component vendors and OEMs the idea of manufacturing elsewhere and just selling in India is going to become painfully expensive. India is putting in place rigorous laws to make imported products expensive. They have been sounding this warning bell for quite a while but now they are moving to enforcement. The era of make-it-elsewhere-sell-it-in-India is coming to an end.

@Nemos, I agree with you. Why do we need another China? what will happen to the market if India does take some business from China? will there be global financial implications?

@Hospice There will be loads of oppurtunities in India since lot of R&D work taking place.

Many startupcompanies are working on Products. For example companies like Saankhya labs http://www.saankhyalabs.com/ are working on World's First Software-Defined Universal Demodulator IC for Digital and Analog TV reception.

HospiceHoungbo: I think they'd prefer China short term, because the ports work and the trains work, etc; but India long term, because I think they will have a greater capacity to have the entire supply chain, or much of it, in the same place. That's my gut sense.

Hi, SF!

@TaimoorZ thanks.

Thanks, Ariella!

Hey, @HH!

Why we need another China ? and why we dont try to built in our Countries the same industry that is now in China and maybe in India in the next decade ?

@jbond: If the investment is possible it can open good opertunities for job openings. Investors should look at ROI-

@pocharle, China doesn't have to do anything about what is going on in India. China is focussing on moving to a higher end in the electronics design and supply chain. It is clear China cannot and does not want to remain a source of cheap goods. Also, it's not only India that wants a piece of the outsourced production being handled by China. Vietnam, the Philippines, Eastern Europe, south American countries and even Australia want a piece too.

@Hospice good question!

@Wale: That's a good point. One of the reasons why call-center industry boomed in India was because it had a large pool of English speaking people.

Black Money means illegal money on which people dont pay tax...

@Marc/Bolaji: Why would investors in the semiconductor industry prefer India to China?  

Marc--exactly. The mian reason foriegn investment goes to these regions is to sell to the consumer market there. How untapped is India's market, and what products should manufacturers be making for that market?

I think China certainly has a great edge over India in terms of infrastructure and political stability..and that's India's greatest weakness

Indian will do well and even may surpass China, unlike China where national language is chinese, Indian national language is English. And that giives the country to fare well internationally in terms of communication

So to me, one question is, does India have the upper hand competitively. Because they're positioning their population advantage around creating high-end, globalized jobs, where China's talking about being a huge consumer market. Would you rather be supply or demand, in 30 years?

Black Money???   what do you mean?   

any country has a debt as big as the US has with China, does any country has  a debt with India?

I"m, asking this becuase always money back up fast development

Is India's economy strong enough to support more investments?

@Anandvy, I agree corruption is a concern for businesses that may want to relocate to India and you are right in pointing this out. In fact, as you are well aware that is one of the issues in the news today in India. The government says it is doing something about it but I doubt people believe they are doing enough.

@Jay bond there will be great advantage with respect quality and reliability

Sorry, crosstalk: okay, my questions: We talk about China's rising middle class as a consumer base. But we talk about India's middle class as a labor force, right? "Someday the Chinese will buy iPhones" is a different sort of statement than "India has fantastic engineers!"

But both are about a massive middle class in Asia.

@mario8a: It is not about India money, investors' money

Hey, Mario!

Hello Susan :D

@mario8a  India has more black money that China

@Ariella: Hello, how are you? lol

That's right @Nemos. 

@Bolaji OK that being said, do you see China doing anything due to these new developments in India to spur growth there?

Another question would be what advantage do manufacturers have by going to India versus going or staying in China?

@Susan, Hello

Does India has more Money than China?

Well, if I'm Apple, say, and I am looking to open a factory, should India compete for that business, or should it instead go to Apple and say, "okay, make the phones in Shenzen, we want the design;IT;customer support; non-manufacturing part.

@Barbara, Great and controversial point. Does the world need another China? India is betting on the same need that you are quite aware of in the electronics manufacturing world, that of diversification. The world was stunned by Japan's March earthquake and India wants to position itself as an alternative source to India. China won't be replaced by India anytime soon but if you don't want to single-source manufacturing you consider alternatives.

Sounds like they have the educational aspects covered, and infrastructure is a significant concern.

Sorry Marc--why don't you start with the questions you posed--can India take advantage of its middle class?

It is a fact that Universities in Europe are full field with students from India and China. That fact indicates that both of them are major players in future IT industry.

There should be another China atleast we can have variety of choices.

Hello hello

Lakhs of people are agitating for anti-corruption law which is biggest threat to Indian growth

@Eldrege, i think in the last few years Indian have been invested in educating its citizens. I was a student at the University in UK, where i studied Embedded Systems few years ago. Since embedded was introduced in that university, indians have been accounted for 70% of students in the course.

"should we not just stick to the current division, where China makes and India supports."

Marc, can you elaborate a bit more on how this would become possible?

@Barbara, well, it's not quite as big as China, so can it really exceed it?

@pocharle, The resources are available but the infrastructure is very weak and without good infrastructure you cannot play a significant role in electronics manufacturing. India is addressing this in two ways. One, they are investing heavily in infrastructure. Two, they are creating technology parks that have all the facilities needed for electronics manufacturing -- these are separate from the facilities available to the general business community.

That's a great point, Scot (flying or grounded). Is India China's competition, or it's market?

Just to divert your attention...there is revolution is on in India againts corruption...

I have to wonder, though, whether the world needs another China. What can India do to exceed China?

So I see three questions here: 1) can India take advantage of its middle class, 2) can India's infrastructure compete with China's well enough to lure manufacturing/assembly, or 3) should we not just stick to the current division, where China makes and India supports.

I reckon China would welcome India as a consumer and not fear it so much as a manufacturer

Institutes like the IIT are top-ranking technology/engineering universities

@Anna: China is always concerned about India emergence. 

I think it will take a while for the complete establishment of the set up but definitely India will be a threat for china soon.

By most accounts, India has advantages over China in the language arena; an educated workforce; and has had the IT support industry cornered for awhile. Why hasn't hardware followed?

True. And fab facilities & production techniques are a lot different subject matter from IT.

Indian unis are well geared for digital and software but analog and silicon processing not so much

I certainly think India has one of the best universities in Asia

Is China concerned in anyway about India's desire to become a major player in electronics manufacturing?

Good Morning Everyone.

Marc things are changing slowly in India...

India has the institutions it needs and graduates some of the best IT professionals in the world. In fact, many of India's top-rated IT colleges are extremely difficult to enter and the competition is very stiff. I don't doubt that India has the educational facilities in place. Experience, though, is a different subject.

@eldredge: Good question. 

China, we know, can.

@Bolaji I know they have a huge population, but are the physical resources available in India to become a major player?

I mentioned I worked awhile in Indonisia; well India faces some similar questions. namely: can it keep the lights on?

Great start, Bolaji

India has won some support, but do you think they have the current infrastructure to support multiple compaies ventures?

Right. And there's the massive capacity question.

Okay. With introductions out of the way let's get rolling on the subject of India's desire to play a bigger role in the electronics supply chain. As I pointed out in a blog today, this is not just vain wishes on the part of the Indian government. They are determined to become a player and they are investing resources to achieve this goal. The issue is whether desire can match industry needs.

How does India fare compared to China in terms of the educated workforce needed to support high tech facilities such as semiconductor fabs?

I'll take that: forgive me for summarizing what most of you may already know...

I visited India 2 years ago to meet several design engineerig firms

So Marc what do you think ? what is the India future (in technology terms)

Hello World

You've been to Jakarta?

Let's set the stage for our discussion. India has recently won some support in the semicondcutor industry. Marc and Bolaji, can you tell us more?

good credentials, Marc. 

Oh dear, please don't ask me that.

Bolaji have you visited India ?

Like Bolaji, I'm a reporter who was based for several years in Asia, specifically Jakarta, Indonesia, between 1998 and 2006.

 @mfdertozzi yes.

Hi everyone

On my part, in addition to my work at EBN, I have been engaged in some way or the other with Asia and lived in the region in the 90s.

welcome Marc...

Some additional information: sure.

[removes cap, bows]

@Nemos: are you thinking in terms of business, technology, services, sw development?

Hi EBN, Everyone!

Marc, Could you please give our audience some additional information about yourself.

Nemos I agree with you..

Hi Jbond

Hi all,

Thanks for joining our chat. We will begin in a few minutes. In the meantime, I'd like to inroduce Marc Herman, EBN's Asia Watch contributor, and Bolaji Ojo, our Editor-in-Chief.

Welcome Marc and Bolaji!

Hello Everyone!

I have a presage that India will take on china.......

Good afternoon all!

Good afternoon, hello everyone !

Hello all

thanks Nemos. Interesting topic, what do you think...?

Looking forward to the chat, it's an interesting debate, I think... and I'm hoping to hear some new perspectives!

welcome Wale

Hello, everyone!

Hello Barbara, tirlapur, Marc and Nemos

Good enough Marc!

:-)

Either here or there, can't tell.

Hello Barbara ,Hello tirlapur,Marc.

Hi Marc--you there?

Welcome all, our chat will begin in less than 10 minutes

tap, tap, this thing on?

Hi tirlapur!

Hello everyone...