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Can India Take on China?

326 comments on “Can India Take on China?

  1. SunitaT
    August 18, 2011

    Hello everyone…

  2. Barbara Jorgensen
    August 18, 2011

    Hi tirlapur!

     

  3. Marc Herman
    August 18, 2011

    tap, tap, this thing on?

     

  4. Barbara Jorgensen
    August 18, 2011

    Welcome all, our chat will begin in less than 10 minutes

  5. Barbara Jorgensen
    August 18, 2011

    Hi Marc–you there?

  6. Nemos
    August 18, 2011

    Hello Barbara ,Hello tirlapur,Marc.

  7. Marc Herman
    August 18, 2011

    Either here or there, can't tell.

  8. Barbara Jorgensen
    August 18, 2011

    Good enough Marc!

    🙂

  9. Wale Bakare
    August 18, 2011

    Hello Barbara, tirlapur, Marc and Nemos

  10. Ariella
    August 18, 2011

    Hello, everyone!

  11. Nemos
    August 18, 2011

    welcome Wale

  12. AnalyzeThis
    August 18, 2011

    Looking forward to the chat, it's an interesting debate, I think… and I'm hoping to hear some new perspectives!

  13. Wale Bakare
    August 18, 2011

    thanks Nemos. Interesting topic, what do you think…?

  14. SunitaT
    August 18, 2011

    Hello all

     

  15. mfbertozzi
    August 18, 2011

    Good afternoon, hello everyone !

  16. Eldredge
    August 18, 2011

    Good afternoon all!

  17. Nemos
    August 18, 2011

    I have a presage that India will take on china…….

  18. jbond
    August 18, 2011

    Hello Everyone!

     

  19. Barbara Jorgensen
    August 18, 2011

    Hi all,

    Thanks for joining our chat. We will begin in a few minutes. In the meantime, I'd like to inroduce Marc Herman, EBN's Asia Watch contributor, and Bolaji Ojo, our Editor-in-Chief.

    Welcome Marc and Bolaji!

  20. Nemos
    August 18, 2011

    Hi Jbond

  21. Anand
    August 18, 2011

    Nemos I agree with you..

  22. bolaji ojo
    August 18, 2011

    Marc, Could you please give our audience some additional information about yourself.

  23. Houngbo_Hospice
    August 18, 2011

    Hi EBN, Everyone!

  24. mfbertozzi
    August 18, 2011

    @Nemos: are you thinking in terms of business, technology, services, sw development?

  25. Marc Herman
    August 18, 2011

    [removes cap, bows]

     

  26. Marc Herman
    August 18, 2011

    Some additional information: sure.

  27. Anand
    August 18, 2011

    welcome Marc…

  28. bolaji ojo
    August 18, 2011

    On my part, in addition to my work at EBN, I have been engaged in some way or the other with Asia and lived in the region in the 90s.

  29. Taimoor Zubar
    August 18, 2011

    Hi everyone

  30. Nemos
    August 18, 2011

     @mfdertozzi yes.

  31. Marc Herman
    August 18, 2011

    Like Bolaji, I'm a reporter who was based for several years in Asia, specifically Jakarta, Indonesia, between 1998 and 2006.

     

  32. SunitaT
    August 18, 2011

    Bolaji have you visited India ?

  33. Marc Herman
    August 18, 2011

    Oh dear, please don't ask me that.

  34. Houngbo_Hospice
    August 18, 2011

    good credentials, Marc. 

  35. Marc Herman
    August 18, 2011

    You've been to Jakarta?

     

  36. Barbara Jorgensen
    August 18, 2011

    Let's set the stage for our discussion. India has recently won some support in the semicondcutor industry. Marc and Bolaji, can you tell us more?

  37. itguyphil
    August 18, 2011

    Hello World

  38. Nemos
    August 18, 2011

    So Marc what do you think ? what is the India future (in technology terms)

  39. FLYINGSCOT
    August 18, 2011

    I visited India 2 years ago to meet several design engineerig firms

     

  40. Marc Herman
    August 18, 2011

    I'll take that: forgive me for summarizing what most of you may already know…

  41. Eldredge
    August 18, 2011

    How does India fare compared to China in terms of the educated workforce needed to support high tech facilities such as semiconductor fabs?

  42. bolaji ojo
    August 18, 2011

    Okay. With introductions out of the way let's get rolling on the subject of India's desire to play a bigger role in the electronics supply chain. As I pointed out in a blog today, this is not just vain wishes on the part of the Indian government. They are determined to become a player and they are investing resources to achieve this goal. The issue is whether desire can match industry needs.

  43. Marc Herman
    August 18, 2011

    Right. And there's the massive capacity question.

     

  44. Jay_Bond
    August 18, 2011

    India has won some support, but do you think they have the current infrastructure to support multiple compaies ventures?

  45. Taimoor Zubar
    August 18, 2011

    Great start, Bolaji

  46. Marc Herman
    August 18, 2011

    I mentioned I worked awhile in Indonisia; well India faces some similar questions. namely: can it keep the lights on?

     

  47. itguyphil
    August 18, 2011

    @Bolaji I know they have a huge population, but are the physical resources available in India to become a major player?

  48. Marc Herman
    August 18, 2011

    China, we know, can.

  49. Houngbo_Hospice
    August 18, 2011

    @eldredge: Good question. 

  50. bolaji ojo
    August 18, 2011

    India has the institutions it needs and graduates some of the best IT professionals in the world. In fact, many of India's top-rated IT colleges are extremely difficult to enter and the competition is very stiff. I don't doubt that India has the educational facilities in place. Experience, though, is a different subject.

  51. Anand
    August 18, 2011

    Marc things are changing slowly in India…

  52. mario8a
    August 18, 2011

    Good Morning Everyone.

  53. Anna Young
    August 18, 2011

    Is China concerned in anyway about India's desire to become a major player in electronics manufacturing?

  54. Taimoor Zubar
    August 18, 2011

    I certainly think India has one of the best universities in Asia

  55. FLYINGSCOT
    August 18, 2011

    Indian unis are well geared for digital and software but analog and silicon processing not so much

  56. Eldredge
    August 18, 2011

    True. And fab facilities & production techniques are a lot different subject matter from IT.

  57. Barbara Jorgensen
    August 18, 2011

    By most accounts, India has advantages over China in the language arena; an educated workforce; and has had the IT support industry cornered for awhile. Why hasn't hardware followed?

  58. saranyatil
    August 18, 2011

    I think it will take a while for the complete establishment of the set up but definitely India will be a threat for china soon.

  59. Houngbo_Hospice
    August 18, 2011

    @Anna: China is always concerned about India emergence. 

  60. Taimoor Zubar
    August 18, 2011

    Institutes like the IIT are top-ranking technology/engineering universities

  61. FLYINGSCOT
    August 18, 2011

    I reckon China would welcome India as a consumer and not fear it so much as a manufacturer

  62. Marc Herman
    August 18, 2011

    So I see three questions here: 1) can India take advantage of its middle class, 2) can India's infrastructure compete with China's well enough to lure manufacturing/assembly, or 3) should we not just stick to the current division, where China makes and India supports.

     

  63. Barbara Jorgensen
    August 18, 2011

    I have to wonder, though, whether the world needs another China. What can India do to exceed China?

  64. Anand
    August 18, 2011

    Just to divert your attention…there is revolution is on in India againts corruption…

  65. Marc Herman
    August 18, 2011

    That's a great point, Scot (flying or grounded). Is India China's competition, or it's market?

     

  66. bolaji ojo
    August 18, 2011

    @pocharle, The resources are available but the infrastructure is very weak and without good infrastructure you cannot play a significant role in electronics manufacturing. India is addressing this in two ways. One, they are investing heavily in infrastructure. Two, they are creating technology parks that have all the facilities needed for electronics manufacturing — these are separate from the facilities available to the general business community.

  67. Ariella
    August 18, 2011

    @Barbara, well, it's not quite as big as China, so can it really exceed it?

     

  68. Taimoor Zubar
    August 18, 2011

    should we not just stick to the current division, where China makes and India supports.”

    Marc, can you elaborate a bit more on how this would become possible?

  69. Wale Bakare
    August 18, 2011

    @Eldrege, i think in the last few years Indian have been invested in educating its citizens. I was a student at the University in UK, where i studied Embedded Systems few years ago. Since embedded was introduced in that university, indians have been accounted for 70% of students in the course.

  70. Anand
    August 18, 2011

    Lakhs of people are agitating for anti-corruption law which is biggest threat to Indian growth

  71. Susan Fourtané
    August 18, 2011

    Hello hello

  72. saranyatil
    August 18, 2011

    There should be another China atleast we can have variety of choices.

  73. Nemos
    August 18, 2011

    It is a fact that Universities in Europe are full field with students from India and China. That fact indicates that both of them are major players in future IT industry.

  74. Barbara Jorgensen
    August 18, 2011

    Sorry Marc–why don't you start with the questions you posed–can India take advantage of its middle class?

  75. Eldredge
    August 18, 2011

    Sounds like they have the educational aspects covered, and infrastructure is a significant concern.

  76. bolaji ojo
    August 18, 2011

    @Barbara, Great and controversial point. Does the world need another China? India is betting on the same need that you are quite aware of in the electronics manufacturing world, that of diversification. The world was stunned by Japan's March earthquake and India wants to position itself as an alternative source to India. China won't be replaced by India anytime soon but if you don't want to single-source manufacturing you consider alternatives.

  77. Marc Herman
    August 18, 2011

    Well, if I'm Apple, say, and I am looking to open a factory, should India compete for that business, or should it instead go to Apple and say, “okay, make the phones in Shenzen, we want the design;IT;customer support; non-manufacturing part.

     

  78. mario8a
    August 18, 2011

    Does India has more Money than China?

  79. Ariella
    August 18, 2011

    @Susan, Hello

  80. Jay_Bond
    August 18, 2011

    Another question would be what advantage do manufacturers have by going to India versus going or staying in China?

  81. itguyphil
    August 18, 2011

    @Bolaji OK that being said, do you see China doing anything due to these new developments in India to spur growth there?

  82. Susan Fourtané
    August 18, 2011

    That's right @Nemos. 

  83. Susan Fourtané
    August 18, 2011

    @Ariella: Hello, how are you? lol

  84. SunitaT
    August 18, 2011

    @mario8a  India has more black money that China

  85. mario8a
    August 18, 2011

    Hello Susan 😀

  86. Houngbo_Hospice
    August 18, 2011

    @mario8a: It is not about India money, investors' money

  87. Susan Fourtané
    August 18, 2011

    Hey, Mario!

  88. Marc Herman
    August 18, 2011

    Sorry, crosstalk: okay, my questions: We talk about China's rising middle class as a consumer base. But we talk about India's middle class as a labor force, right? “Someday the Chinese will buy iPhones” is a different sort of statement than “India has fantastic engineers!”

    But both are about a massive middle class in Asia.

  89. saranyatil
    August 18, 2011

    @Jay bond there will be great advantage with respect quality and reliability

  90. bolaji ojo
    August 18, 2011

    @Anandvy, I agree corruption is a concern for businesses that may want to relocate to India and you are right in pointing this out. In fact, as you are well aware that is one of the issues in the news today in India. The government says it is doing something about it but I doubt people believe they are doing enough.

  91. jbond
    August 18, 2011

    Is India's economy strong enough to support more investments?

  92. mario8a
    August 18, 2011

    Black Money???   what do you mean?   

    any country has a debt as big as the US has with China, does any country has  a debt with India?

    I”m, asking this becuase always money back up fast development

  93. Marc Herman
    August 18, 2011

    So to me, one question is, does India have the upper hand competitively. Because they're positioning their population advantage around creating high-end, globalized jobs, where China's talking about being a huge consumer market. Would you rather be supply or demand, in 30 years?

     

  94. Wale Bakare
    August 18, 2011

    Indian will do well and even may surpass China, unlike China where national language is chinese, Indian national language is English. And that giives the country to fare well internationally in terms of communication

  95. Taimoor Zubar
    August 18, 2011

    I think China certainly has a great edge over India in terms of infrastructure and political stability..and that's India's greatest weakness

  96. Barbara Jorgensen
    August 18, 2011

    Marc–exactly. The mian reason foriegn investment goes to these regions is to sell to the consumer market there. How untapped is India's market, and what products should manufacturers be making for that market?

  97. Houngbo_Hospice
    August 18, 2011

    @Marc/Bolaji: Why would investors in the semiconductor industry prefer India to China?   

  98. SunitaT
    August 18, 2011

    Black Money means illegal money on which people dont pay tax…

  99. Taimoor Zubar
    August 18, 2011

    @Wale: That's a good point. One of the reasons why call-center industry boomed in India was because it had a large pool of English speaking people.

  100. Ariella
    August 18, 2011

    @Hospice good question!

  101. bolaji ojo
    August 18, 2011

    @pocharle, China doesn't have to do anything about what is going on in India. China is focussing on moving to a higher end in the electronics design and supply chain. It is clear China cannot and does not want to remain a source of cheap goods. Also, it's not only India that wants a piece of the outsourced production being handled by China. Vietnam, the Philippines, Eastern Europe, south American countries and even Australia want a piece too.

  102. Susan Fourtané
    August 18, 2011

    @jbond: If the investment is possible it can open good opertunities for job openings. Investors should look at ROI-

  103. Nemos
    August 18, 2011

    Why we need another China ? and why we dont try to built in our Countries the same industry that is now in China and maybe in India in the next decade ?

  104. Susan Fourtané
    August 18, 2011

    Hey, @HH!

  105. Wale Bakare
    August 18, 2011

    @TaimoorZ thanks.

  106. Houngbo_Hospice
    August 18, 2011

    Thanks, Ariella!

  107. Houngbo_Hospice
    August 18, 2011

    Hi, SF!

  108. Marc Herman
    August 18, 2011

    HospiceHoungbo: I think they'd prefer China short term, because the ports work and the trains work, etc; but India long term, because I think they will have a greater capacity to have the entire supply chain, or much of it, in the same place. That's my gut sense.

  109. SunitaT
    August 18, 2011

    Many startupcompanies are working on Products. For example companies like Saankhya labs http://www.saankhyalabs.com/ are working on World's First Software-Defined Universal Demodulator IC for Digital and Analog TV reception.

  110. saranyatil
    August 18, 2011

    @Hospice There will be loads of oppurtunities in India since lot of R&D work taking place.

  111. Jay_Bond
    August 18, 2011

    @Nemos, I agree with you. Why do we need another China? what will happen to the market if India does take some business from China? will there be global financial implications?

  112. bolaji ojo
    August 18, 2011

    @Barbara, The conversation is changing in India about what should be sold in the country versus what should be made in the country. For electronics component vendors and OEMs the idea of manufacturing elsewhere and just selling in India is going to become painfully expensive. India is putting in place rigorous laws to make imported products expensive. They have been sounding this warning bell for quite a while but now they are moving to enforcement. The era of make-it-elsewhere-sell-it-in-India is coming to an end.

  113. Marc Herman
    August 18, 2011

    saranyatil: exactly

     

  114. Susan Fourtané
    August 18, 2011

    @pocharle @Bolaji: It's like everybody wants a piece of the pie.

  115. Wale Bakare
    August 18, 2011

    We have to also analyse critically how Indian has been performing on software technology globally, whether we can benchmark the performance with its proposal to venture into hardware design.

  116. Ariella
    August 18, 2011

    @Bolaji are you saying that India will force its own domestic production through high tarrifs on imports?

  117. Barbara Jorgensen
    August 18, 2011

    The other question I have–and maybe our readers in India can answer–is whether India sees China as a competitor, or the US as a competitor? At first, China was seen as a great opportunity for US companies and now it is the evil job-sucking empire. Will we view India any differently?

  118. saranyatil
    August 18, 2011

    @tirlapur thanks for that info!

     

  119. Anna Young
    August 18, 2011

    The main challenge to manufacturing in India is not just that it is virgin land. The supply chain is not strong enough and is hardly comparable to China's. How can India solve this problem?

  120. Taimoor Zubar
    August 18, 2011

    @Barbara: I don't think India is at a stage yet that it can view US or China as its competitors

  121. AnalyzeThis
    August 18, 2011

    @Bolaji, saw your response about India's infrastructure which is one of my main concerns with the region from a tech manufacturing standpoint… as you say, India does realize this and they are creating technology parks and all that, but realistically, how and when will we start to see dramatic improvements here? China, for all its flaws, at least has done a good job executing on their infrastructure plans. Also, even if tech parks are created and all that, I'm concerned about transport: obviously the roads/ports are not up to China's standards. Are there plans to address that as well?

  122. Barbara Jorgensen
    August 18, 2011

    Thanks Taimoor!

  123. Houngbo_Hospice
    August 18, 2011

    @Marc/Bolaji:How would China be affected then? less revenues or China can still be having her share in the industry?  

  124. Anand
    August 18, 2011

    @Barbara, India sees China as role model. Many people in India appreciate Chinas growth and they are trying to embibe those values

  125. Marc Herman
    August 18, 2011

    Barbara: A key point. It's interesting how we talk about the two behemoth nations, from the US and Europe. China's a threat; India's an opportunity. Do Indian readers feel insulted by this? It's almost like the US is saying not, “great, a partner,” but “ooooh, how cute, India has money now”

  126. saranyatil
    August 18, 2011

    @ Anna young With respect to supply chain India is definitely building on its competencies.

  127. bolaji ojo
    August 18, 2011

    @Ariella, They are already doing this. They are increasing tarrifs on imports and cutting taxes on local production. They will run into problems with the WTO on some of these but on others they will force companies to do local production. In addition, they are offering incentives for companies to manufacture locally. One of the new regulations is 100 percent tax-free profit repatriation on goods manufactured locally. That's a great incentive.

  128. Barbara Jorgensen
    August 18, 2011

    Thanks Anandvy–very helpful

  129. Marc Herman
    August 18, 2011

    China has wage issues and currency issues and if India starts seriously getting into electronics manufacturing in a world-beating kind of way, China's government has a new, serious variable to consider in its formula for the future.

     

  130. Barbara Jorgensen
    August 18, 2011

    Marc–spot on. As US citizen in Asia, what are your thoughts?

  131. Susan Fourtané
    August 18, 2011

    @Barbara:  @Taimoor is right. It's too soon for India to see the big countries as competitors

  132. Eldredge
    August 18, 2011

    I always thought tariffs on imports was a double-edged sword. It will be interesting to see what impact it has for India.

  133. AnalyzeThis
    August 18, 2011

    @Barbara, that's a good point about how India will be viewed by the US… will it be percieved more positively than China, or will it just be dismissed as a slightly different overseas nation we're outsourcing jobs to? I do think there is some negative perception of India already, obviously attempts to relocate customer service call centers to India have not been well-received across-the-board…

  134. Ariella
    August 18, 2011

    @Bolaji, yes, I suppose that could work. But I wonder if other countries would try to take such steps to make imports unattractive, including imports from India.

     

  135. Anand
    August 18, 2011

    Barbara you might be surprised many companies import parts from China make products and sell it to customers.

  136. bolaji ojo
    August 18, 2011

    @Sarayantil, I agree India is trying to build out a supply chain competence but this is not something a government or individual company can do by itself. It has taken China years to become the powerhouse it is today and India will have to slowly build and encourage the development of the network of companies that will support the electronics supply chain. It's not enough to just offer incentives if I cannot get the parts I need.

  137. mfbertozzi
    August 18, 2011

    @Marc, @Bolaji:
    Today, Telecoms Regulatory Authority of India and Wireless Intelligence, stated an interesting breaking news: India mobile market is inflated by some 250 million inactive connections  that has dampened the growth achievements of many Indian operators. According to that, mobile market and then business in general is coming down.It is necessary a revaluation. Have you same feeling? In your opinion, is it a temporary trend? For how long?

  138. Taimoor Zubar
    August 18, 2011

    Since it's independence, Indian government has been very strict about imports. I think that has been the foremost reason why local products became so successful

  139. Wale Bakare
    August 18, 2011

    If Indian can perform well in software development. I cant see reason why, the country cant compete with china in semiconductor sector.

  140. AnalyzeThis
    August 18, 2011

    @Marc, but surely India is not immune to wage/currency issues? Even if wages there aren't a problem at the moment, wouldn't they face the same problems as China in the future?

  141. Jay_Bond
    August 18, 2011

    @dennisQ, I agree with you. There is already a negative vibe towards India because of all the call centers, and for more jobs to get outsourced there might cause them to be viewed more like China

  142. Barbara Jorgensen
    August 18, 2011

    DQ–you are right–India was the target for awhile becuase of IT outsourcing, and China is now  in manufacturing. I guess it depends on whether the service or manufacturing industries in the US are hurting most..oh wait! Both of them are

  143. Susan Fourtané
    August 18, 2011

    @Marc- It seems to me more like an opportunity for India. Why readers in India should be offended? 

  144. saranyatil
    August 18, 2011

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

    @Wale It really can perform well there is no doubt in that regard.

  145. itguyphil
    August 18, 2011

    @Wale But those are 2 completely different ballgames. Success in one does not necessarily apply to the other

  146. bolaji ojo
    August 18, 2011

    @mfbertozzi, The problem you describe is not peculiar to India. In any nation where wireless handsets and services are not sold as a subscription but is offered a la carte, you could easily build up millions of moribund users who hop from one network to the other. This is a challenge for the local telecom carriers but not for manufacturers. In fact, if people don't use the phones (and if they are cheap enough, which they are) this will only boost sales at OEMs.

  147. Nemos
    August 18, 2011

    Before we examine the question if India takes on China,  we must examine the relations between US and China now in Technology sector.

  148. mario8a
    August 18, 2011

    for India in order to take over China's bussiness will need some big players on the electronic industry, who will be the strong investors for India?   someone like Microsoft? APPLE?

  149. saranyatil
    August 18, 2011

    @ Pocharle I do agree its a different Ballgame but the dedication and efficiency comes into picture .

  150. Marc Herman
    August 18, 2011

    mfbertozzi: that's interesting, and speaks to the infrastructure question. They need to prove that they can reliably keep a factory running on their roads, electrical grid, port system, train system… China's way ahead on that. 

    DennisQ: Agreed. But we know China's depressing its currency, and like Bolaji said, it's a decade or more further along in the process of industrialization, and embedding itself in various supply systems, compared to India. So — lacking data — I could imagine a situation where Indian companies have a competitive advantage on wages and exchange, if only for their evolutionary state compared to Chinese manufacturing.

     

  151. jbond
    August 18, 2011

    Which companies have signed on to move to India?

     

  152. bolaji ojo
    August 18, 2011

    @Wale Bakare, That's the way the government view things. If they can do well in software development, why shouldn't they get some of the hardware business too?

  153. mfbertozzi
    August 18, 2011

    @Nemos: in addition to sectors mentioned, do you think India is going to take Cina also for other market segment? For example steelworks should be huge market to achieve.

  154. Wale Bakare
    August 18, 2011

    @pocharle you may be right, with Indian government backing this we never can tell.

  155. saranyatil
    August 18, 2011

    @ Maria it can be google since motorola has strong base in India and Google too

  156. Barbara Jorgensen
    August 18, 2011

    Sorry…got off on a tangent. Let's take the US out of this. What will it take–foreign investment? government investment? to bring India's infrastructure up to standard?

  157. Susan Fourtané
    August 18, 2011

    @Mario: It seems more likely that Nokia could invest in India.

  158. Marc Herman
    August 18, 2011

    jbond: wouldn't we all like to know, right? Here's a bit of news for you: LG's going long.

    http://news.in.msn.com/business/article.aspx?cp-documentid=5375326

    (wait! read that later! we want you here now).

     

  159. Taimoor Zubar
    August 18, 2011

    @Barbara: I think they need foreign investment..lots of it..and government policies which can attract foreign investment and maintain investor's confidence in the country

  160. FLYINGSCOT
    August 18, 2011

    it will take foreign investment and govt breaks to encourage foreign investment…just like China did

  161. bolaji ojo
    August 18, 2011

    @Mario8a, Many Japanese companies are investing heavily in India today, partly because they need the market and also because they have run into problems in China. The history of relationship between Japan and China is not very positive and we have seen numerous flare ups that hurt Japanese OEMs. As a result, they are looking into expanding in India.

  162. Marc Herman
    August 18, 2011

    here's the nut graf on that LG India example: “Electronics India has aggressive plans to invest Rs 138 crore in manufacturing and Rs 240 crore in marketing of home appliances, along with a vast after sales service network”

  163. Susan Fourtané
    August 18, 2011

    @Bolaji: That makes sense -what the gov says/.

  164. elctrnx_lyf
    August 18, 2011

    @Susan .. Nokia has made huge investments in India already and had built their larget manufacturing facility in chennai many years back.

     

  165. Nemos
    August 18, 2011

    hold on , the message board is on fire…….

  166. SunitaT
    August 18, 2011

    @Bolaji when you say Japanese companies are you referring to Toshiba ?

  167. Taimoor Zubar
    August 18, 2011

    Japan investing in India…that's interesting..should China be worried about it?

  168. Ariella
    August 18, 2011

    @Nemos better than having it freeze up

  169. Marc Herman
    August 18, 2011

    Bolaji makes a key point: this is also a pan-Asian question. Japan has lots of reasons to do business with India and not China. Starting with direct competitive issues.

  170. AnalyzeThis
    August 18, 2011

    @Marc, thanks for the response! Good point about China's currency changes

  171. bolaji ojo
    August 18, 2011

    @Barbara, Government investment is the first step towards bringing Indian infrastructure up to date. But the government is also inviting businesses to partner with it and offering to allow them manage some of these. India is actively recruiting U.S. corporate partners for some of the infrastructure projects.

  172. saranyatil
    August 18, 2011

    @Taimoorz It will be threat to china to a greater extent

  173. Eldredge
    August 18, 2011

    Actually, Japan investing in India makes a lot of sense to me.

  174. Marc Herman
    August 18, 2011

    Also, I think we need to be careful how we think about China and India, as governments, versus China and India as business environments. What “China” wants may not be the same thing as what a Chinese manufacturer wants.

  175. Nemos
    August 18, 2011

    🙂 Ariella

  176. FLYINGSCOT
    August 18, 2011

    India was looking to start a semicon fab to address its internal IC demand and wanted partners but that did not seem to receive much interest

  177. bolaji ojo
    August 18, 2011

    @Tirlapur, I refer to Toshiba and others, including automotive companies. The big Japanese companies have extensive local presence in India but they are willing to take this further. Let's not forget that in addition to the possibility of easier manufacturing environment, India also offers the prospects of a giant market even if it's going to be in future.

  178. Marc Herman
    August 18, 2011

    FlyingScott: And why not, do you think?

  179. Jay_Bond
    August 18, 2011

    Japan investing in Idia makes sense, but would add lead time to receiving shipments due to greater distance of travel versus China.

  180. Nemos
    August 18, 2011

    What “China” wants may not be the same thing as what a Chinese manufacturer wants.”

    For example ?

  181. Susan Fourtané
    August 18, 2011

    elctrnx_lyf: yes, Nokia likes to invest in Asia. Maybe it's a reason why Asian markets respond well to Nokia's products

  182. Barbara Jorgensen
    August 18, 2011

    Thanks Bolaji. It seems to me the Chinese government is one of the driving forces behind China's growth, particularly in green technology. (Which makes sense for China vis a vis pollution.) I wonder if India could leapfrog in some way–clean water technology–whihc would also help pave the way for better infrastructure.

  183. FLYINGSCOT
    August 18, 2011

    I wonder about the business culkture of India vs China and what motivates each…I believe that is a big factor

  184. Houngbo_Hospice
    August 18, 2011

    @Marc: Which semiconductor suppliers  would likely take the investment lead in India in a short term? 

  185. bolaji ojo
    August 18, 2011

    @Flyinscot, You are right. The initial response to India's request for “expression of interest” in fabs hasn't been encouraging but I believe this is part of the challenge for India. It is possible some company might still take them up but the incentive would have to be greater than what is on offer now.

  186. mfbertozzi
    August 18, 2011

    I think an important process as emerging business in/for India, has to consider also local culture. General feeling is local culture is closer to Western attitude than China. Is it right? It could be a competitve advantage for them?

  187. FLYINGSCOT
    August 18, 2011

    India values greatly democracy and that affects growth

  188. saranyatil
    August 18, 2011

    @ Susan Nokia s products are well marketed in the Asian market but in between due to huge losses Loads of resources were removed.

  189. bolaji ojo
    August 18, 2011

    @Hospice Houngbo, Intel first invested in India early in 2001. It hired more than 2,000 engineers in the country and continues to be an investor in the country. Putting a $3 billion to $4 billion fab there, though, is another matter.

  190. mario8a
    August 18, 2011

    I know and Ive been in China many times, but I don't know India.. can anybody tell me if the salary for the force labor is better than China?

    in the South of China where Foxconn is located people is asking for more benefits, I wonder if India is taking advantage of this and advertising better conditions ofr workers or benefits than China?

     

  191. Taimoor Zubar
    August 18, 2011

    @Flyingscot: Democracy is another great edge that India has over China

  192. Susan Fourtané
    August 18, 2011

    @mfbertozzi-This is an opportunity for cross-cultural lessons for India and China, 

  193. FLYINGSCOT
    August 18, 2011

    In IC design and service salary is about the same for entry level

     

  194. itguyphil
    August 18, 2011

    @Bolaji Exactly. Managing people and managing a plant are two different worlds

  195. Anand
    August 18, 2011

    @mario8a, Typical average salary for IT fresher start from 5Laks i.e around 10000$ per year…

  196. Houngbo_Hospice
    August 18, 2011

    @FLYINGSCOT: Democracy affecting growth? That's paradoxal, don't you think?

  197. Anand
    August 18, 2011

    Semiconductor salary is nearly 2x to 5x that of software industry…

  198. FLYINGSCOT
    August 18, 2011

    Don't see the paradox…please explain

  199. Houngbo_Hospice
    August 18, 2011

    @Bolaji: I see!

  200. bolaji ojo
    August 18, 2011

    The lack of democracy in China hasn't hurt the country. Is it a factor? Yes. Do companies focus on it today as a determining factor? No. India is not going to sell itself as the world's biggest democracy to attract business. It will have to be viable on other levels.

  201. Ariella
    August 18, 2011

    @Susan that's an optimistic way of looking at it. Sometimes there are significant clashes between cultures that get in the way of working together.

  202. Marc Herman
    August 18, 2011

    Nemos: It's like what Bolaji just said about Intel. China wants the 4billion factory built, because that's a lot of jobs. Intel's Chinese competition might prefer it's government not offer the usual incentives, tax breaks, etc, to make that happen. 

     

  203. saranyatil
    August 18, 2011

    there huge demand for semiconductor industry in India

  204. elctrnx_lyf
    August 18, 2011

    I think it is not just the technical talent, India needs more n more enterprenuers who can be part of the complete ecosystem to build the companies who can develop the complete parts starting from screw to an high end electronic equipment.

  205. FLYINGSCOT
    August 18, 2011

    I think demoncracy in India will hold its growth back vs China

  206. Barbara Jorgensen
    August 18, 2011

    Good point electrynx. Does anyone know what the state of venture cpaital invesemtn is in India?

  207. mfbertozzi
    August 18, 2011

    @Susan: great Susan ! Do you think they are interested in cross-cultural collaboration instead of competition?

  208. Houngbo_Hospice
    August 18, 2011

    @FLYINGSCOT: India values greatly democracy and that affects growth “: I thought demacracy is a favourable ground to eceonomy growth?

  209. elctrnx_lyf
    August 18, 2011

    All that India needs is more and more enterprenuers and at the same it needs huge government support to provide the necessary land and other facilities

  210. AnalyzeThis
    August 18, 2011

    I agree that India's democracy isn't neccessarily an advantage and actually some would consider it to be a disadvantage.

  211. Marc Herman
    August 18, 2011

    More what I mean to say is that there is a difference between nations and industries. “India taking on China” is a geopolitical, economic dynamic, with impact on jobs, etc. Lenovo taking on Bharti is a financial, business world dynamic. But both are “India taking on China”

     

  212. Nemos
    August 18, 2011

    “Democracy affecting growth? That's paradoxal, don't you think?” @Hospice all companies needs a stable and secure environment. That kind of stability is beneficial only in democracy.  

  213. FLYINGSCOT
    August 18, 2011

    China unashamedley encouraged growth…even for the select few and to the detriment of others

  214. elctrnx_lyf
    August 18, 2011

    I think it is not really good state. Even many of my collegues want to start companies but they always take back step because the terms are completely controlled by VC's

  215. Marc Herman
    August 18, 2011

    Democracy: Call me a hippie, but I can think of few examples of democracies underperforming autocracies over, say, a generation.

  216. bolaji ojo
    August 18, 2011

    I said in a blog today not to take lightly India's determination to become a powerhouse in electronics manufacturing. I still believe folks tend to overlook India. The country has several other reasons for seeking local production and a major factor is in terms of its military exposure. India shares a long border with China with which it previously fought a war and is certainly in a messy relationship with Pakistan. It also has internal problems that haven't been resolved. The Indian military does not like the country's dependence on foreign IT hardware. They want to break that pattern and I think eventually they will.

  217. Susan Fourtané
    August 18, 2011

    @Ariella: Languages schools have thought about cross-cultural buisness. Some have developed a cross-culture course for companies. 

  218. Barbara Jorgensen
    August 18, 2011

    Marc–expatriot, maybe, but hippie?

  219. Marc Herman
    August 18, 2011

    I'm from California.

  220. Susan Fourtané
    August 18, 2011

    @Ariella: It's actually a good opportunity for lanaguage schools and China is a great client for them. 

  221. elctrnx_lyf
    August 18, 2011

    There is not many forums/stage where it can gather different mix of enterprenuers. May be creating such venue could be the fist step to take on china.

     

  222. mario8a
    August 18, 2011

    Mar is Hippie?

  223. Ariella
    August 18, 2011

    @Susan, would the Finnish small talk class be an example? I'm not sure all the subtleties of culture can be conveyed in classes.

  224. itguyphil
    August 18, 2011

    @Bolaji I know they have a huge population, but are the physical resources available in India to become a major player?

  225. itguyphil
    August 18, 2011

    Hello World

  226. itguyphil
    August 18, 2011

    @Bolaji Exactly. Managing people and managing a plant are two different worlds

  227. Ariella
    August 18, 2011

    @Susan but it could be an opportunity for language instructors — just like many Americans learned Japanese in the late 80s.

  228. itguyphil
    August 18, 2011

    @

     Great point

  229. Houngbo_Hospice
    August 18, 2011

    @Marc: Agreed, but as I said “democracy is a more favourable ground to safe investment”, and that is what some investors favour the most

  230. Susan Fourtané
    August 18, 2011

    @mfbertozzi: learning about each other's culture on how to do business will help either competition or collaboration

  231. mario8a
    August 18, 2011

    I think distribution channels will be the key for development, China has it, India has it too?

  232. FLYINGSCOT
    August 18, 2011

    is India more inward looking and China more outward looking?

  233. Marc Herman
    August 18, 2011

    Oh dear, the hippie thing was a joke. But speaking of California, here's the real issue, I think — that India is building relationships with silicon valley that are very different than China's. Silicon Valley has very strong ties to India, and I wonder — and would love to hear opinions — about whether that cultural coseness isn't a competitive advantage for Indian electronics. I mean, Silicon Valley is a very Indian place. that matters, right? Or am I being simplistic.

  234. bolaji ojo
    August 18, 2011

    @pocharle, I believe I addressed your question about India's physical resources earlier. The resources are available but the support infrastructure is weak.

  235. Marc Herman
    August 18, 2011

    closeness. typo

  236. saranyatil
    August 18, 2011

    @mario8a Distribution channel is looking positive for now.

  237. mfbertozzi
    August 18, 2011

    @Marc (Bolaji): as per what you have experienced also recently, for investors, which sectors are currently preferred? We have discussed about mobile, electronics, but we are speaking about consumers or OEM for vendors? Other segment, for example, civil infrastructure, imo, could be a great field for India on which play the leadership game with China.

  238. FLYINGSCOT
    August 18, 2011

    Silicon valley is also very Asian based

  239. jbond
    August 18, 2011

    Would the Indian government see an influx in inflation with major manufacturing taking hold?

  240. bolaji ojo
    August 18, 2011

    @Mario8a, Sorry, India doesn't have the same level of distribution channels it needs to get goods in and out. That's part of the problem the country has to overcome.

  241. Jay_Bond
    August 18, 2011

    @Marc, I belive you are correct. The relationship with Silicon Valley and India is gaining a lot of momentum and should help

  242. mfbertozzi
    August 18, 2011

    @Susan: you are right, I am in line with.

  243. FLYINGSCOT
    August 18, 2011

    India needs better infrastructure for distribution.

  244. Susan Fourtané
    August 18, 2011

    @Ariella: Yes, the English small talk is an example in classes on how other countries do business/. 

  245. Barbara Jorgensen
    August 18, 2011

    Marc–I think that is a good observation (Silicon Valley/India ties) and can only be an advantage for India.

     

  246. FLYINGSCOT
    August 18, 2011

    Better roads and affordable cars would be big business for India to serve their own market…question is how do they pay for that

  247. Houngbo_Hospice
    August 18, 2011

    @Bolaji: India is angling for a bigger piece of the electronics manufacturing market and is offering semiconductor suppliers incentives “: What is in that “incentives” package?

  248. Nemos
    August 18, 2011

    @ Flyingscot  infrastructure for distribution is something that could be built quickly.

  249. Barbara Jorgensen
    August 18, 2011

    Interesting point about distrbution. The industrial guys–Avnet, Arrow–haven't done a lot in India while Flextronics has set up a logistics hub there for after-sales service and support. The industrials have focused on engineering resources in India, which makes sense…

  250. bolaji ojo
    August 18, 2011

    @Jay_Bond, That is the third strong leg India currently stands on — the expatriate Silicon Valley Indians returning to the country. As US immigration has tightened the number of Indian engineers and designers returning home has increased and they will play a greater role in setting up the fabless chip vendors that will help establish the country in semiconductor. By the way, that's a strategy Chinese design houses used effectively (Please see the recent report completed by EE Times Confidential.)

  251. Marc Herman
    August 18, 2011

    Avent, Arrow, etc: What I think we're returning to is this cliche, that Barbara started this converstaion pointing out, that in the eyes of the world's electronics investors, China is a giant labor force and India is a giant brain. And that's not quite so. 

  252. mario8a
    August 18, 2011

    infrastucture for distribution, that was the topic I was referring, Thanks FLYINGSCOT.

    Now, when I talk to some Electronic Distributors, one of they main concern is the Safety of Goods, would anybody have an idea if this is a problem in India biggger than China?

  253. Taimoor Zubar
    August 18, 2011

    @Nemos: I think that creating a distribution structure depends a lot on the kinds of resources available to businesses

  254. bolaji ojo
    August 18, 2011

    @Hospice_Houngbo, Please check out my latest blog on the subject. There are links in the article to India's incentive package.

  255. Nemos
    August 18, 2011

    TaimoorZ, Indeed, I agree.

  256. Houngbo_Hospice
    August 18, 2011

    Ok, Bolaji!

  257. Taimoor Zubar
    August 18, 2011

    @mario8a: I would put “Safety of Goods” under law and order situation and certainly China has more stability, safety and a better law and order situation than India

  258. Ashu001
    August 18, 2011

    Guys,

    The biggest problems in India are the following-Infrastructure and policy indecision

    Regards

    Ashish

  259. bolaji ojo
    August 18, 2011

    @mfbertozzi, India is putting emphasis on telecommunications equipment currently. As previously noted this is partly driven by security concerns. Other areas are power supplies, environmental or green products and automotive.

  260. FLYINGSCOT
    August 18, 2011

    I agree with Ashish

  261. itguyphil
    August 18, 2011

    @tech4people Indecision by whom?

  262. Barbara Jorgensen
    August 18, 2011

    Marc–India has definitely worked to change that perception, and maybe building fabs will help turn the tide. What about EMS factories, though?

  263. saranyatil
    August 18, 2011

    @Bolaji thx for that.

  264. Ashu001
    August 18, 2011

    Unless we see changes on either of these fronts I really don't see how India can challenge China.

    Regards

    Ashish.

  265. Nemos
    August 18, 2011

    Bolaji ?

  266. elctrnx_lyf
    August 18, 2011

    Telecommunication manufacturing is grown particulary in the base station market. Both Nokiasiemens and Ericsson have their manufacturing facilities in India.

  267. bolaji ojo
    August 18, 2011

    @Ashish, I think Ashish just brought up an important point and one of the reasons why electronics company may be hesitant to jump into the India market. India is notorious for taking two steps forward and one or more back. Companies need a consistent environment and strategic policies that don't change from one day to the next. India is politically fractured and it is not unlikely that a new governmetn might reverse something the prior government introduced.

  268. saranyatil
    August 18, 2011

    @ Barbara Good Point once the setup materialize i think EMS Factories staring will eventually take place.

  269. Marc Herman
    August 18, 2011

    No one's mentioned yet that India makes cars. That's a huge demonstration of industrial and supply capacity. 

    Ashish: do you sense any interest/advantages/motion on those fronts?

  270. mfbertozzi
    August 18, 2011

    @tech4people: interesting feedback Ashish, it reports a trend really opposite to on going discussion.

  271. bolaji ojo
    August 18, 2011

    @Nemos, Did I miss a question you asked?

  272. Taimoor Zubar
    August 18, 2011

    @Ashish: Totally agree with you here…a solid infrastructure which is conducive for businesses and government policies that encourage investment are exactly what India needs

  273. Nemos
    August 18, 2011

    No no sorry my mistake

  274. Ashu001
    August 18, 2011

    @Marc-I agree that India makes the best Small cars in the world and is by far the Small Car capital of the world,this is where Govt policy is a boost.

  275. bolaji ojo
    August 18, 2011

    @Ashish, I don't expect India to become a serious challenger to China in the short term. But on a longer-term basis, India will eventually attract the resources it needs to solve the problems you identified. Also, I know the country has not been standing still. The evolution hasn't been as rapid as the one China engineered but it is taking place and will only accelerate in future.

  276. saranyatil
    August 18, 2011

    @ Taimoorz/Ashish Government should be instrumental and speed up the process.

  277. Marc Herman
    August 18, 2011

    Ashish: is there a regional dynamic at place here, do you think? It's a big country. Particularly on infrastructure questions, regional governments seeking to attract investment might be freer in India than in China to invest in creating infrastructure for business. O

  278. Barbara Jorgensen
    August 18, 2011

    We should start wrapping up. I learned a lot here today–thanks Marc, Bolaji and our readers.

  279. mfbertozzi
    August 18, 2011

    @tech4people: coming back to cars market, you are right India is becoming a big producers, but it seems the sector isn't so good for investors, as per discussion held till now.

  280. mario8a
    August 18, 2011

    One thing I'll like to ask, China imports talent from different countries and they welcome foreing industries, what is the situation in India?

  281. itguyphil
    August 18, 2011

    @saranyatil Unfortunately, government typically only helps to slow down processes.

  282. FLYINGSCOT
    August 18, 2011

    thanks Barbara, Bolaji and everyone

  283. Marc Herman
    August 18, 2011

    I would like to wrap this up by asking the key question no one's asked: you are taking someone to dinner in San Francisco: Indian or Chinese?

  284. Ashu001
    August 18, 2011

    @mario-India is way more welcoming of Foriegn Talent,Capital than China

     

  285. Taimoor Zubar
    August 18, 2011

    @Bolaji: You also need to consider that India has a great divide in terms of income disparity and has one of the highest unemployment rates

  286. Ashu001
    August 18, 2011

    @Mario-In fact India definitely scores higher than China in one major area-Protection of IP

  287. Houngbo_Hospice
    August 18, 2011

    Chinese, for now!

  288. mario8a
    August 18, 2011

    thanks Tech4people

  289. Barbara Jorgensen
    August 18, 2011

    Thanks again, all. To Marc's questions: seafood, of course.

  290. bolaji ojo
    August 18, 2011

    For those interested, here are some nuggets of information about India's growth in electronics. The country's export in electronics grew 84 percent the April-July period. India is growing faster and it's already exporting electronics.

  291. saranyatil
    August 18, 2011

    @Pocharle if we are looking to compete with china i think government should do something.

  292. Nemos
    August 18, 2011

    Thank you all for been in this nice and interesting conversation .

  293. Ariella
    August 18, 2011

    84% is a very impressive rate of growth!

  294. Taimoor Zubar
    August 18, 2011

    @marc: Neither 🙂

  295. itguyphil
    August 18, 2011

    Thanks for the great chat!

  296. Ariella
    August 18, 2011

    Thank you, Bolaji.

  297. mario8a
    August 18, 2011

    Thank You for answering all my questions and for this great discussion

  298. saranyatil
    August 18, 2011

    Thanks all great learning experience

  299. Susan Fourtané
    August 18, 2011

    nuggets of information=makes me hungry at this time @Bolaji

  300. bolaji ojo
    August 18, 2011

    @Marc, Why pick? I'll take both the Indian and the Chinese. They are not at war and I am not playing favorites in my business. I just want to sell my widgets or get someone to make them for me at a cheaper price. Three is company in my opinion.

  301. Marc Herman
    August 18, 2011

    thanks all for participating.

  302. Taimoor Zubar
    August 18, 2011

    Thanks to the organizers for the great discussion as always..

  303. Susan Fourtané
    August 18, 2011

    That's an amazing percentage

  304. Ashu001
    August 18, 2011

    @Mario-Nobody seems to realise this critical fact-While in India the Judiciary is independent of the Govt in China its actually a part of the Govt.So the people who run the Govt directly control the Judiciary.

  305. Marc Herman
    August 18, 2011

    Bolaji: I meant the restaurant, not the guest!

  306. Ashu001
    August 18, 2011

    @Susan-Please don't bring up food,I am forever hungry!!!

  307. mfbertozzi
    August 18, 2011

    EBN, Thanks to all for live chatting, it was very great.

  308. Houngbo_Hospice
    August 18, 2011

    @Balaji: That's a wise answer! You have no enneny!

  309. mario8a
    August 18, 2011

    Correct  Tech4People.

    I've seen in China the goverment to hire 300 Engineers and load the factory with equipment in less than 1 month.

  310. bolaji ojo
    August 18, 2011

    Please before we all log off, I would like to invite you to another chat we are having next week. Matthew Sheerin, an analyst with extensive experience in the electronics supply chain will join us on Tuesday for a live chat. I worked with Matt years ago and you'll enjoy the chat. He knows his onion and we can benefit from his knowledge. Please join us Aug. 23.

  311. bolaji ojo
    August 18, 2011

    Thank you all and good hunting (for money!).

  312. FLYINGSCOT
    August 18, 2011

    bye

  313. Susan Fourtané
    August 18, 2011

    @Ashish: I didn't. Bolaji and Marc did. 🙁 Me too here. It's time to grab some dinner. Thanks all and see you next time. 

  314. Houngbo_Hospice
    August 18, 2011

    @Balaji: LOL!

  315. Marc Herman
    August 18, 2011

    cheers.

  316. AnalyzeThis
    August 18, 2011

    Thanks all for your time!

  317. bolaji ojo
    August 18, 2011

    @Marc, My apologies. I guess launch at the Chinese restaurant (it's cheaper and they have lunch special) and dinner in the Indian restaurant (sit down and relax).

  318. Anand
    August 18, 2011

    Bye all

  319. Susan Fourtané
    August 18, 2011

    Thanks @Bolaji. We will all join. Just stop talking about food unless you bring the snacks. 😀

  320. Ashu001
    August 18, 2011

    Taking up from my point again-So its very easy for the Chinese princelings(who are part of the Govt) to steal all the IP they want.China's quite an expert at that…

  321. Barbara Jorgensen
    August 18, 2011

    Thanks again all! I especially like our little side chats on food, music (thanks Alex Wolfe) and cell phones (Ariella and eemom). Have a great weekend (dinner, snack, whatever.)

  322. SunitaT
    August 18, 2011

    Thanks everyone

  323. Ashu001
    August 18, 2011

    AS far as Investors go,it depends on what kinds of returns you really are chasing in India.

  324. Ashu001
    August 18, 2011

    In the Autospace-its quite possible to get high single Digit returns YoY for most investors;thats how much growth is happening there today.The Aspirational level of Indians is on the up bigtime.Everyone wants to own a car today and they have much higher savings(Than most Westerners to boot).The only wrinkle is High gasoline/Diesel costs.If Those two become cheaper (as Crude Oil continues to correct and correct sharply);I can see Auto sales picking up bigtime,Double Digit Sales growth is highly-highly possible

  325. Ashu001
    August 18, 2011

    It was great speaking with all you guys here.

    Take care and Have a great weekend!!

    Regards

    Ashish.

  326. Houngbo_Hospice
    August 18, 2011

    How can big data be translated into “big money”?

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