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Live Chat 11/13: In Search of Fresh Component Standards

70 comments on “Live Chat 11/13: In Search of Fresh Component Standards

  1. levs
    November 13, 2013

    Dear Friends,

    Welcome to Live Chat about very acute issue of Date Code Policy and Restrictions.

    With best wishes

    Lev Shapiro

  2. Hailey Lynne McKeefry
    November 13, 2013

    We will be starting at 11:00 a.m. PST/2:00 p.m. EST sharp. First, though, there are two housekeeping notes:

    First, please make a copy of your post before hitting the “post” button – just in case.  If the system “eats” one of your carefully crafted thoughts, please hit “Ctrl-Z” to recover it.

  3. Hailey Lynne McKeefry
    November 13, 2013

    Second, if you have problems posting, we suggest trying a different browser.  IE9 is a popular choice, but sometimes find Firefox, Chrome, or Safari work better.

  4. Hailey Lynne McKeefry
    November 13, 2013

    This will be a fun, fast, and friendly conversation, so please do not hold back with your comments or questions.  There are no dumb questions and we value everyone's point of view.

  5. Hailey Lynne McKeefry
    November 13, 2013

    Questions, theories, ideas, real world experiences and even friendly rants are welcome here.

  6. Hailey Lynne McKeefry
    November 13, 2013

    And always, please announce your arrival so we can give you a warm EBN welcome and offer you some virtual  guacamole. 🙂

  7. Hailey Lynne McKeefry
    November 13, 2013

    We'll be starting in about 15 minutes

     

  8. levs
    November 13, 2013

    Dear Hailey,

    I am here with you.

    With best wishes

    Lev

  9. jbond
    November 13, 2013

    Hello Everyone!

     

  10. Hailey Lynne McKeefry
    November 13, 2013

    Hi lev, thanks for joining us!

     

     

  11. Hailey Lynne McKeefry
    November 13, 2013

    Welcome, jbond. Pull up a chair and help yourself to some virtual guacamole and chips. 🙂

     

  12. jbond
    November 13, 2013

    Yum guac again. This place is the best! 🙂

  13. Hailey Lynne McKeefry
    November 13, 2013

    Guacamole is tradition!

  14. Hailey Lynne McKeefry
    November 13, 2013

    Lev, would you like to get teh ball rolling with a short explaination of the history of the component freshness debate?

     

  15. Rodney Brown
    November 13, 2013

    Howdy folks. Here it is way past guac season and into hot toddies.

  16. Hailey Lynne McKeefry
    November 13, 2013

    From our sponsor Avent a few words on this topic:

    The activities of Standardization Committees have positively influenced the Electronics Industry in many areas, however the production date coding of electronic components has still no unified format. Depending on the packaging, device size, product type, manufacturing country, producing factory and subsidiaries, date code formats vary significantly by supplier or even within suppliers.

    On the basis of supplier information and own investigations Avnet Logistics has compiled date code keys to help to identify date codes of products distributed by Avnet EM EMEA.

  17. Hailey Lynne McKeefry
    November 13, 2013

    Welcome Rodney! We may add teh toddies..but guac is always festive! Glad you could make it.

  18. Hailey Lynne McKeefry
    November 13, 2013

    @jbond. Have you encountered concerns around the age of electronic components?

  19. jbond
    November 13, 2013

    I have had issues with dates and warranties.

     

  20. Hailey Lynne McKeefry
    November 13, 2013

    @Jbond. Can you say more?

  21. Rodney Brown
    November 13, 2013

    I can see how warranties might be a concern, but do components really have a use-by shelf life? Well, one that isn't in decades, any way?

  22. levs
    November 13, 2013

    Hi to everybody!

    The issue of Date Code restrictions is very vague. In the past the MIL-Standard has restriction for 18 months, and commercial market decided to take extra 6 months. So, the most of OEMs put in their POs restriction of 2 years for vendors.

    After that the MIL Standard canceled restriction, requiring only the checking of solderability after long term storage. And component manufacturers define their own restrictions from 2 to 5 years, and MAXIM offers to their customers unlimited shelg life upon delivery.

    Lev

     

     

  23. jbond
    November 13, 2013

    I had 2 instances where I needed items to be covered by warranty and I was told they were out of warranty. It was due to the items being on the shelf too long.

  24. Hailey Lynne McKeefry
    November 13, 2013

    I believe this issue is pretty heavily weighted toward the type of components. Some components with possible age-related issues:

    1)  electrolytics do dry out, especially if stored in heat

    2) batteries 

    3) static sensitive components may have been mishandled/mispackaged to death;

    4)  component leads become tarnished and difficult to solder (easily fixed).

  25. Hailey Lynne McKeefry
    November 13, 2013

    So these are items you bought and stored/ That's a wrinkle that i hadn't thought of.

  26. jbond
    November 13, 2013

    Yes Hailey

     

  27. Hailey Lynne McKeefry
    November 13, 2013

    @Rodney, i believe that some of the age related issues ere more linked to older manufacutring issues. As manufacturing has evolved, many of the potential age problems have been reduced or eradicated.

  28. Hailey Lynne McKeefry
    November 13, 2013

    @jbond, has that changed your sourcing strategy? Do you make date a restriction on POs? How “fresh” do you require components to be?

  29. jbond
    November 13, 2013

    I think most batteries and other components now have dates on them.

  30. jbond
    November 13, 2013

    @ Hailey. Yes, we limit our stock to what is needed. Which sometimes if very difficult.

  31. Hailey Lynne McKeefry
    November 13, 2013

    @Lev, I understand that there used to be some programs around standardizing date codes but none are active now. Do you thik this is something we need to have as an industry?

  32. Ashu001
    November 13, 2013

    Am I too late?

  33. Ashu001
    November 13, 2013

    Quicktime Kept crashing on me …

  34. Hailey Lynne McKeefry
    November 13, 2013

    @jbond, it seems like a pick your poison sort of situation. Running out of stuff is problematic too!

     

  35. Hailey Lynne McKeefry
    November 13, 2013

    Not at all, tech4people! Glad to have you with us…pull up a chair and grab some chips and guac. Do you have experience iwht date codes? Concern or no?

  36. Rodney Brown
    November 13, 2013

    Thanks Hailey. And I forgot about the use of batteries and electrolytics — that all makes sense.

  37. Hailey Lynne McKeefry
    November 13, 2013

    ON products where life is important, it would seem to me that having some agreed upon standard about how to mark the dates would be useful.

  38. Ashu001
    November 13, 2013

    @Hailey-Honestly its actually a concern,

  39. Ashu001
    November 13, 2013

    @Hailey-A lot of Businesses need Time Stamping.So we need to keep these codes accurately(which isnt the case  always).

  40. Hailey Lynne McKeefry
    November 13, 2013

    @tech4people. what issues have you encountered?

  41. Ashu001
    November 13, 2013

    @Hailey-Forgery is a big concern or Fake Data stamps.

  42. Hailey Lynne McKeefry
    November 13, 2013

    That's a good point, tech4people. Next week i'm heading to San Diego for the Symposium on Counterfeit Electronic Parts and Electronic Supply Chain. I'll let you know if i get any insight on that.

     

  43. jbond
    November 13, 2013

    I agree that forgery is a concern

  44. Hailey Lynne McKeefry
    November 13, 2013

    It stirkes me that this is an issue that can drill down to huge impact to the organization. Poor components lead to poor product reliability and that to a hit to the corporate image, sales and the rest.

  45. Ashu001
    November 13, 2013

    @hailey-Thanks! That will be most appreciated.

  46. Ashu001
    November 13, 2013

    @Hailey-Absoluetly! I couldnt have said it better even If I wanted to!

  47. Hailey Lynne McKeefry
    November 13, 2013

    Here's a link to the program, everyone feel free to let me know if there are optics that are particularly of interest to you: http://www.smta.org/counterfeit/tech.cfm

  48. Hailey Lynne McKeefry
    November 13, 2013

    @lev, what  would be yoru best case scenario for the industry in terms of electronic date codes? You say that you hear from a lot of customers on the topic. what concerns do they express to you?

  49. levs
    November 13, 2013

    I don't have any doubt that this issue should be standardized by some way. Of course, it is wrong
    to define the same date code restrictions for batteries and aluminum electrolytic capacitors as it should be for other components. In practice OEM and their Incoming Inspection should take into account:

    – shipment from manufacturer, franchised distributor or from broker;
    – original packing or not;
    – Through Hole part or SMD
    – part needs to be soldered or not, etc.

    Lev

     

  50. Ashu001
    November 13, 2013

    @Lev-Great Points! Wish everyone adhered to such Stringent Standards.

  51. Hailey Lynne McKeefry
    November 13, 2013

    @Lev, can you recommend some best practices around component freshness for organizations?

  52. Jamescon
    November 13, 2013

    Sorry I'm late. Wireless crashed on me.

  53. Hailey Lynne McKeefry
    November 13, 2013

    @JimC, sorry for your technical woes! It seems to be going around. You are welcome at any time though! Would some guacamole cheer you up?

  54. Rodney Brown
    November 13, 2013

    Lev, how does a company keep trackof all the date codes on the millions of parts? Is there some industry standard software, or just lots of Excel spreadsheets?

  55. Hailey Lynne McKeefry
    November 13, 2013

    @Rodney, good question…and since each kind of part may have a different standard that's another layer of complexity

     

  56. Hailey Lynne McKeefry
    November 13, 2013

    I notice we are past the half hour mark… perhaps it's time to draw to a close. Any last thoughts Lev?

  57. levs
    November 13, 2013

    When people ask for my advice concerning acceptable parts with long shelf storage, I usually try to do some investigation about shipment asking them many questions, as I mentioned before. So I try to build some algorithm: if it is possible to accept the part, or to check (test) additional points, or reject it.
    But when I am talking about necessary standards, I mean, first of all, the manufacturers or distributors,
    and not OEMs. 

  58. Hailey Lynne McKeefry
    November 13, 2013

    I have this visual picture in my head of even my cell phone and other electronic devices being delivered with a date sticker. I know that's standard in some equipment… do  you think the end consumer would care?

  59. Hailey Lynne McKeefry
    November 13, 2013

    @Lev,  you mentioned Military but are there other verticals that are particularly concerned about data coding of components?

  60. Jamescon
    November 13, 2013

    Hailey I'll chime in with one possibility. Almost anyone who uses electronic components might have to know when a component was made because the maker might have added enhancements or other fixes. It sounds like a key database app, tracking which enhancements were made after which dates.

  61. levs
    November 13, 2013

    I mentioned MIL Standard in the past (about up to ten years ago) that was used as example
    for commercial market. But today this issue became much more complicated and acute, because
    even very strict term (18 months) is not active more and there is no any other standard or regulation
    that clearly describes required restrictions for date code of different components. This is a main problem.  

  62. Hailey Lynne McKeefry
    November 13, 2013

    @Jimc, That's a good thought… Certainly some designs are very sensitive to changes.

  63. Hailey Lynne McKeefry
    November 13, 2013

    So Lev, tell us how it would work in your ideal world?

  64. Hailey Lynne McKeefry
    November 13, 2013

    @Lev, what has changed that makes it more complicated and acute?

  65. levs
    November 13, 2013

    Ideal world may be only in a dream. But what happens today in the real world is very similar
    to anarchy. And I don't know what to recommend to OEM who will get by supply chain the component
    of Maxim with the date code of 6-7 years or more. And nobody have right to complain…

  66. Hailey Lynne McKeefry
    November 13, 2013

    I see we are nearly at the top of the hour. Thanks, Lev, for bringing this topic to our attention and for joining in as our point of reference expert. We really appreciate it! This chat transcript will remain so we can get the word out to others.

  67. Hailey Lynne McKeefry
    November 13, 2013

    @and thank you all for coming and bringing your experiences and questions!

  68. levs
    November 13, 2013

    Dear Hailey,

    I thank you very much for organising of this discussion. Let's hope that it will help.

    Bet wishes
    Lev

  69. Hailey Lynne McKeefry
    November 13, 2013

    Thanks, Lev!

  70. levs
    November 13, 2013

    Dear Hailey,

    Not at all.

    P.S. I didn't understand why I am called as Stock Keeper. 

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