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Hello EBN readers. Our Live Chat on the wisdom of Microsoft's decision to introduce its own tablet PC will start in 20 minutes. We will be chatting with Rick Merritt, a long-term observer and commentator on the high-tech and electronics industry and expert on the original equipment manufacturer (OEM) business.
Good afternoon and welcome to today's Live Chat. Interesting things are happening in today's electronics market. Today's Live Chat will focus on the tablet PC market and the changing dynamics the players are going through.
Today, we will be discussing the recent decision by Microsoft Corp. to introduce its own tablet PC with Rick Merritt, a top editor with EE Times and long-term observer and commentator on the high-tech market. First some words of introduction about Rick.
Thanks for the welcome. I think tablet PC market is a topic which concerns almost all users esp those who are looking to find efficient ways of performing great at their profession.
Rick Merritt has been covering and reporting on the electronics industry for decades. I first met Rick in 1999 when I joined UBM, the parent of both EE Times and EBN. At the time, Rick was the editor in chief at EE Times. Since then, he has transitioned to the position of editor-at-large for the publication and is considered an industry guru on OEMs. He will be addressing Microsoft's decision in this Live Chat. Please join me in welcoming Rick. Hi Rick
Hi EBN readers: As always, thanks for particip[ating. And, as awlays, we ask that you hold off questions for our guest until we've set the stage for our discussion. Thanjks!
Microsoft blew it. They had 20 years of making PCs with OEMs to establish deep, effective design relationships with OEMs.
When a big shift to smartphpones and tablets, turns out they could not work with any of them to muster a credible Windows X tablet, so they tried to do it themselves.
The result is a not even quick-to-markiet, undifferentated tablet that won't compete well with Amazon's Kindle Fire, Samsubng's Galaxy Tab or the new Nexus 7 from Google/Asus.
Even Amazon and Google, new at the hardware game have done a better job than Microosft Surface.
So, sorry Microosft, your are still baclk of the pack in the next wave of computing.
While Rick is getting ready. Here are some numbers for us to chew on. The tablet PC market reached $35.3 billion in 2011 from as low as $9 billion only a couple of years earlier. It is expected the market will continue to grow at a compounded annual growth rate of 10.6 percent per year through 2016.
Rick, the argument some people have positioned is that Microsoft felt it needed to get into the tablet market because its PC partners were doing such a poor job.
Indeed they were. I think Microsopft has to take some of the hit for that. Theyu did not develop deep, effective p-artnmerships that were win-wins for their OEMs. Now they get the bad result
Other factoids about the tablet PC market: 1. It is dominated by Apple, which controls more than three-quarters of the market currently. 2. Apple also controls most of the profit from the segment.
Let me say that with fewer typos: Msoft failed to develop good OEM partnerships. But going it alone will not solve its problems. It will just create new ones.
It's not too late to get into tablets, but it is hard.
Amazon did a fine job differentiating with Kindle Fire. Google/Asus did OK creating a Kindle Fire-alike and Samsunbg did a great job with an iPad like Tab Its very early days for tablets
Thank you EBN readers. We would love to have your comments and questions for Rick now. You can also direct questions at other members of the audience and EBN editors. Also, let's have your opinion as to the likely impact of this decision on Microsoft and the supply chain.
I don't think compatibility with the Windows APIs takes you as far as it used to. These days biz users are brining in ihones and Android phones and IT is supporting them. Same for tablets.
@Rich, I've also wondered about your earlier question. Does the fact that Microsoft is late to a “party” stop it from eventually dominating the sector?
@Rick: How do you think companies will respond to this? A lot of companies are already on Microsoft platform so do you think they'd want to give these tablets to their corporate staff?
Msoift could still have a big win hjere someday, but they have to find a way to differenytiate or “embrace (the trend) and extend) it as they used to say. So far, I dont see that
@Flyingscot: That's what I think too. If there's good integration between the tablet and Windows on your home computer or laptop, surface can be very useful
I'm still a hold out on tablets, but there are aspects of the surface I like, such as the keyboard and its reputed seamlessness with Msoft products. But Samsung's new ultrathin laptop looks good too, not to get off on a tangent
Msoft has already alienated its OEMs. Taiwan OEMs told me last year they didn't see Win 8 as a strong contender for tablets because compared to Android you have a more expensive OS (not free) that needs more memory and processing and lacks the wealth of handset/tablet apps now in the Google store
I think microsoft may at initial stage experience problems with its partners who but in the long run should Surface tablets command market, that would win back support from its partners
Taiwan Inc. is already more in love with Google than Msoft for everythinhg from tablets on down. The necxt war may be over notebooks, but here the old Win productivity apps hold greater sway, and the notebook is usually provided by IT, whiloe the tablet is a consumer buy
@Rich/Bolaji:Samsung is launching new digital interaction by adopting sensors for managing home devices via smartphone, could it be a key target for Microsoft too?
I would not at this moment rule out Microsoft. There are numerous reasons for them to do this deal, including the fact they may be locked out of a potentially huge market where they cannot provide software or hardware.
As far as US-based EMS, Jabil is big and has a good rep; and Celestica is based in Canada. They are the biggies, but it's possible smaller or mid-sized EMS are involved. But no confirmation, just an educated guess
I just can't believe Google has been able to strike good collaborations with Samsung, Moto, HTC and Asus, and Msoft can't find a solid partner for a differentiated Win 8 device. Holy cow!
While Apple is already into a new game ( TVs ) MS is trying to enter the Tablets. Does the focus of Apple away from tablets help microsoft to catch the tide in its trail?
Apple will kieep focused on handset and tablets as it cranks up whatever it plans in TVs. Msoft is still tryoing t0o get established in handsets, let alone tablets. They are waaaaay behind
Rick–agreed. However, if Msoft is going to manufacture the Surface in the US, it has to develop entrely new relationships with ODMs/EMS. Traditionally, PCs/tablets are not a US-product.
Its really weird why MS hasnt been able to get a single partner. However, I think partner in the form of Nokia can be great considering both are struggling in their respective fields therefore the enthusiasm to make a come back is likely to be great.
@Rick/Bolaji: one additional thought, Apple for example has reached its outstanding by implementing the strategy of “store”, is it something Microsoft could potentially adopt as help for promoting Surface sales?
@Barbara, I don't believe the Surface tablet is being manufactured in the United States. It will most likely be made by a contractor in China unless Microsoft wants to make a political statement. I doubt this, though.
I give MS some credit for coming up with the new Metro interface. It shows willingness to innovate and a few good ideas, which is significant from such a big company and such an old Windows franchise, but frankly, the WebOSA people were doing about as well—and they didn't make a go of it.
mfrobertozzi: I've read that Msoft is going the retial store route. I'm not sure that is a great idea. Apple has a unique product: Msoft is sold even in bookstores.
@Waqas: Yes, MS and Nokia are the one solid partnership in the Windoews Post PC era but ironically both are struggling to be relevent, and more ironically MSoft stole Nokia away from Intel!
Well Nokia has been around as a giant for around a decade. Once a champion makes it most likely for it to make a comeback. Secondly, its Asha series hasnt done that bad.
Soon these device will be powerful enough to be virtualized and run multiple operating systems. Would be cool to have one device that can run iOS, Android, and MS.
I don't buy the argument that in the new consumer era one company has to do all the software and hardware. Apple is doing great things, but so is Google with a horizontal model
“Microsoft stole Nokia away from Intel”. Isnt Intel supposed to be only a hardware manufacturer and MS a software/OS manufacturer ? How has MS stolen away Nokia from Intel? Am I too outdated :S ?
Rick, Correct. Microsoft doesn't have to be in the hardware business to be a successful player. But what then explains its decision to go into the tablet PC business? Desperation?
Nokia has its experience in mobile going for it. But with a few exceptions, its hardware is getting so-so reviews. Combining two relative weaklings in hardware could be a problem.
@Waqas: Intel had a collabotration with Nokia on an Atom-based handset. After Nokia got a new CEO, he scrapped the Intel deal and went all in withy Msoft in Win 8. We'll see how that plays out in the next 2-3 years. I suspect, poorly.
@Bola: I think MS was desperate to get a good Win 8 tablet out. The NYT had a great report a couple weeks ago about their efforts with HP and how both companies dropped the ball at different stages and ways. So they wanted to get somethinhg out.
@Barbara/Bolaji/Rick (all): apart Apple, event happened recently are demonstrating vendors which are spending effort in both hw and OS, are facing strong crisis (Nokia, RIM), on the other side Samsung, by focusing on hw, is gaining success, has MSFT well evaluated impacts in playing both hw and sw?
@Rick: Do you think MS is taking the right step by making a name for itself in the hardware market? It's not been so well-known for developing hardware over the years.
@Barbara: I haven't seen many details on who is designed into Surface. But I expect SAurface to be maybe as successful as Zune, perhpas more successful than Kin, so whoever is designed in there ain't getting a big or long ride.
Has anyone seen a believeable BoM for Surface? I have not. I might assume a tegra 3 because of Tegra use in the Zune. Beyond that I know nothing and assume it is generally available parts, nothinhg unique inside.
@prabhakar: I think the USP can be the interface because a lot of people are comfortable using Windows so the Surface can have a similar UI..apart from it integration with other Windows-based systems can also be one.
Jacob: I think Msoft will either have to be a price leader or a tech leader. I don't think it will be able to comete on price–not should it, if Apple is its target
@anandvy: I suspect Msoft may want to leave wiggle room to tweak the design before the GA of Win 8. Who knows, they might even kill it if some OEMs got fired up to do cool products with Win 8. They just want Win 8 toi be a winner in tablets
@mfbertozzi: I think with that price range it will have to compete with the iPad and Samsung Galaxy head-to-head..I don't think MS has much chance of success there.
@Rich, Alright. I am a bit perplexed. Are you implying that the Surface would not make any impact on the tablet PC market or that it's still a wait-and-see situation?
@Rich, that's very important to consumers. If price is far too outrageous and quality is far behind Apple's iPad and Samsung's … i bet Surface would struggle like its predecessors (HP, RIM)
@Barbara, I believe Microsoft wants to position the Surface to work more or less like a notebook. The connectors it offers will distinguish it from the iPad.
Rick: A couple of educated guesses. Solectron was involved in the development and manufactruing of the Xbox. They had a pretty big US presence, and may still have since they have been acquired. That means Flextronics, I think…
@trila: Nokia's new CEO made an all-in bet on Wi4Phones and he will probably succeed or fail with that bet. But it takes at least another 1`-2 years for that bet to play out before shareholder put on pressure
@Rick, Microsoft is going with both hardware and software for the tablet PC market. Why is it declining to do this in the smartphone market? Because of the alliance with Nokia?
I think the tablet market still has room for a big player like Microsoft but their product needs to offer something unique that other vendors have not yet offered.
@Barbara: The tablet market is not like Windows where you vcanh iterate and win with release 3.0 In tablets if it doesnt succeed, bury it and try a whole new one. There's no forgiveness in consumer devices for a Surface Re-paved product
I reveiewed a Samsunbg Galxay tab and enjoyed playiong with it. Then gave it away. Ditto a RIM Playbook (which had muchy more sophisticated software) but it sits unused in the drawer today. I get eno0ugh screen time without a tab and when I need to compute its a handset for a quickie or a notebook for a full sized meal
@Barbara: The new large size handsets from Samsung et all are very popular in Asia now. I think Samsung may have hit 0on a little differentiator ahead of the iPhone 5. This is thye kind of iterative innovation from all sides that will be hard for Apple to deal with long term
For those who are not aware, Rick is also an authority on patents, a topic of great interest to the electronics industry nowadays. I am hoping Rick would agree sometime soon to be our guest on EBN discussing the patent litigations.
To conclude, I'd say MS needs to offer something unique with Surface and make sure the software is bug-free. This might give them a chance to excel in the tablets market
@Rich Well, it's that way with a lot of things that are very high priced when they first come out but become cheaper and better in new editions. Those who want to be first are paying the premium to say they have the very latest toys.
This implise that they would be great sales turnover if this strategy is used by the Microsoft Cooparation as compared to other software manufacturers across the globe.
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Hi Everybody
Really looking forward to this lecture! Fascinating lecture series for sure.
its postponted
Hello everyone.
If I am not wrong chat is postponed for today ?
Hi Jacob, tech4people and tirlapur…
Hello, fellow early birds!
Hi Ariella, welcome aboard!
Hello EBN readers. Our Live Chat on the wisdom of Microsoft's decision to introduce its own tablet PC will start in 20 minutes. We will be chatting with Rick Merritt, a long-term observer and commentator on the high-tech and electronics industry and expert on the original equipment manufacturer (OEM) business.
Hi Rich and Bolaji!
I'm in!
Thanks, Wale.
Here we are ! Hello everyonne.
Hello everone already onboard
Hi all
Our Live Chat on Microsoft's entry into the OEM market with Rick Merritt will start in a few minutes. Please stand by.
We can do a 2 minute countdown
Hi all
Hi all
Hi, Anna!
Hello Ariella
Hi Anna, how are you?
Hello Rich
Hello Wale
Good afternoon and welcome to today's Live Chat. Interesting things are happening in today's electronics market. Today's Live Chat will focus on the tablet PC market and the changing dynamics the players are going through.
I'm fine thanks
Welcome Ariella, Anna
Today, we will be discussing the recent decision by Microsoft Corp. to introduce its own tablet PC with Rick Merritt, a top editor with EE Times and long-term observer and commentator on the high-tech market. First some words of introduction about Rick.
Sounds exciting, Bolaji.
@tiralpur thanks!
Helli Tirlapur
@ Bolaji
Thanks for the welcome. I think tablet PC market is a topic which concerns almost all users esp those who are looking to find efficient ways of performing great at their profession.
sorry Tirlapur, meant hello
We are honoured to have Amold Gates as our guest
hi everyone
Alright, let me just jump in here with my opinion
Rick Merritt has been covering and reporting on the electronics industry for decades. I first met Rick in 1999 when I joined UBM, the parent of both EE Times and EBN. At the time, Rick was the editor in chief at EE Times. Since then, he has transitioned to the position of editor-at-large for the publication and is considered an industry guru on OEMs. He will be addressing Microsoft's decision in this Live Chat. Please join me in welcoming Rick. Hi Rick
Hello everyone
Hi EBN readers: As always, thanks for particip[ating. And, as awlays, we ask that you hold off questions for our guest until we've set the stage for our discussion. Thanjks!
Welcome Rick
Chat already started ?
Rick is starting with some opening comments on the development. Please hold all comments and questions until we give the go-ahead.
Nice to hear from you Rick on Microsoft key decisions for the future !
Hi Rick. Looking forward to hear your views.
@Barbara, thanks to you an Bolaji for hosting this…
Hi Barbara. Hope you are doing great
I have seen Rick's article on EEtimes, looking forward to hear his views on Microsoft
Great to see you all here today. I too am curious about the implications of the Surface.
Microsoft blew it. They had 20 years of making PCs with OEMs to establish deep, effective design relationships with OEMs.
When a big shift to smartphpones and tablets, turns out they could not work with any of them to muster a credible Windows X tablet, so they tried to do it themselves.
The result is a not even quick-to-markiet, undifferentated tablet that won't compete well with Amazon's Kindle Fire, Samsubng's Galaxy Tab or the new Nexus 7 from Google/Asus.
Even Amazon and Google, new at the hardware game have done a better job than Microosft Surface.
So, sorry Microosft, your are still baclk of the pack in the next wave of computing.
While Rick is getting ready. Here are some numbers for us to chew on. The tablet PC market reached $35.3 billion in 2011 from as low as $9 billion only a couple of years earlier. It is expected the market will continue to grow at a compounded annual growth rate of 10.6 percent per year through 2016.
Hello All
Is Surface real threat to Apple ?
@Bolaji that;s us a vert raoud rate of growth.
PLEASE HOLD OFF ON ALL QUESTIONS, COMMENTS AND GREETINGS UNTIL WE GIVE THE GO-AHEAD. THIS IS EXTREMELY IMPORTANT. THANK YOU.
@Bolaji, whoops, mistyped that. just commenting on a very rapid rate of growth you quoted.
Rick, the argument some people have positioned is that Microsoft felt it needed to get into the tablet market because its PC partners were doing such a poor job.
@Ariella, Thank you. We'll open the floor in about 10 minutes. I realize this is a hot topic. Thank you for understanding.
Indeed they were. I think Microsopft has to take some of the hit for that. Theyu did not develop deep, effective p-artnmerships that were win-wins for their OEMs. Now they get the bad result
Hi Rick–tell us what you really think 🙂
Other factoids about the tablet PC market: 1. It is dominated by Apple, which controls more than three-quarters of the market currently. 2. Apple also controls most of the profit from the segment.
Let me say that with fewer typos: Msoft failed to develop good OEM partnerships. But going it alone will not solve its problems. It will just create new ones.
Seriously, is it that Microsoft ius just too late to the tablet game, or Surface is just a ho-hum product?
What about Msoft's stake in the IT/enterprise space? Does that bode well for adoption of tablets there?
It's not too late to get into tablets, but it is hard.
Amazon did a fine job differentiating with Kindle Fire. Google/Asus did OK creating a Kindle Fire-alike and Samsunbg did a great job with an iPad like Tab Its very early days for tablets
Rick, What does Microsoft's decision mean for its suppliers?
Thank you EBN readers. We would love to have your comments and questions for Rick now. You can also direct questions at other members of the audience and EBN editors. Also, let's have your opinion as to the likely impact of this decision on Microsoft and the supply chain.
I don't think compatibility with the Windows APIs takes you as far as it used to. These days biz users are brining in ihones and Android phones and IT is supporting them. Same for tablets.
1. What is the long term strategy of Microsoft- To compete with Google on both hardware and software platforms?
I like the thay Surface looks and the pop out keyboard is something I would use. But what Microsoft needs is an app ecosystem. They need iTunes!
@Rich, I've also wondered about your earlier question. Does the fact that Microsoft is late to a “party” stop it from eventually dominating the sector?
I think Msoft's strategy is to establish Win 8 in tablets and Win4Phone in handsets. But so far its an uphill battle f0or them
@Rick: How do you think companies will respond to this? A lot of companies are already on Microsoft platform so do you think they'd want to give these tablets to their corporate staff?
Ah yes, the BYOD movement. Does Msoft bring anything to the security game that other vendors might not have?
@Dave, I am waiting to see the Surface before making up my mind.
Msoift could still have a big win hjere someday, but they have to find a way to differenytiate or “embrace (the trend) and extend) it as they used to say. So far, I dont see that
If Surface can link in with office PC systems then it would be a great of office away from the office.
@Bolaji that's the smartest way to decide.
Microsoft join at the right time – HP, RIM and Nokia have failed to give consumers an
alternative hardware that can compete with Apple and Samsung.
The pull of compatibiloity with Office has some merit, but not much IMHO.
Rick, what are the potential pitfalls for msoft going it alone?
@Flyingscot: That's what I think too. If there's good integration between the tablet and Windows on your home computer or laptop, surface can be very useful
What could be the strategy by Microsoft , not going with Nokia on smartphones with their W8?
@WaleBakare: could you elaborate more about Microsoft right time? Thx.
I'm still a hold out on tablets, but there are aspects of the surface I like, such as the keyboard and its reputed seamlessness with Msoft products. But Samsung's new ultrathin laptop looks good too, not to get off on a tangent
Msoft has already alienated its OEMs. Taiwan OEMs told me last year they didn't see Win 8 as a strong contender for tablets because compared to Android you have a more expensive OS (not free) that needs more memory and processing and lacks the wealth of handset/tablet apps now in the Google store
I think microsoft may at initial stage experience problems with its partners who but in the long run should Surface tablets command market, that would win back support from its partners
Rick–how about the debut of Msoft 8? Might that propel the Surface?
@Rich, You have the go-ahead!
I agree Win8 is not optimal for tablet OS. Need to be lean and mean.
@Rich: Yes, performance will be a big concern as MS is not very well-known for designing bug-free software
Taiwan Inc. is already more in love with Google than Msoft for everythinhg from tablets on down. The necxt war may be over notebooks, but here the old Win productivity apps hold greater sway, and the notebook is usually provided by IT, whiloe the tablet is a consumer buy
Interesting comment about the Taiwan OEMs. BTW, any idea who Msoft has in the US to make the tablet?
Flying Scot, then how they can offer W8 based tablets
@mfbertozzi, thanks. Right time in the sense that – the major competitors for Microsoft areApple and Samsung
I, too, wonder who got the deal to make Ms Surface tablets. Anyone here know?
@Rich/Bolaji:Samsung is launching new digital interaction by adopting sensors for managing home devices via smartphone, could it be a key target for Microsoft too?
@WaleB: got it ! thx.
Wale, i think rather than Apple or Samsung, Android is going to be the competitor
Where will be general battle: in software or hardware?
I would not at this moment rule out Microsoft. There are numerous reasons for them to do this deal, including the fact they may be locked out of a potentially huge market where they cannot provide software or hardware.
Mfbertozzi, I don't think msoft stepped out too late. They just didn't do their homework well enough.
As far as US-based EMS, Jabil is big and has a good rep; and Celestica is based in Canada. They are the biggies, but it's possible smaller or mid-sized EMS are involved. But no confirmation, just an educated guess
If Microsoft could produce ultra high quality hardware less expensive i think. Market would experience different race.
@Jacob: I think MS will have to compete on dual fronts – with the hardware OEMs like Samsung and software like Android
@Anna. Very well placed! God bless you.
I just can't believe Google has been able to strike good collaborations with Samsung, Moto, HTC and Asus, and Msoft can't find a solid partner for a differentiated Win 8 device. Holy cow!
Edmunds, Ofcourse in Software because MS is outsorcing the HW part
While Apple is already into a new game ( TVs ) MS is trying to enter the Tablets. Does the focus of Apple away from tablets help microsoft to catch the tide in its trail?
Apple will kieep focused on handset and tablets as it cranks up whatever it plans in TVs. Msoft is still tryoing t0o get established in handsets, let alone tablets. They are waaaaay behind
@prabhakar: Apple has already dominated the tablet market..seems like MS is chasing Apple!
Rick–agreed. However, if Msoft is going to manufacture the Surface in the US, it has to develop entrely new relationships with ODMs/EMS. Traditionally, PCs/tablets are not a US-product.
@ rmerritt
Its really weird why MS hasnt been able to get a single partner. However, I think partner in the form of Nokia can be great considering both are struggling in their respective fields therefore the enthusiasm to make a come back is likely to be great.
@Rick/Bolaji: one additional thought, Apple for example has reached its outstanding by implementing the strategy of “store”, is it something Microsoft could potentially adopt as help for promoting Surface sales?
Rich, u r right. Some of the agencies are offering tablets even for $50 with Android OS
@Barbara, I don't believe the Surface tablet is being manufactured in the United States. It will most likely be made by a contractor in China unless Microsoft wants to make a political statement. I doubt this, though.
I give MS some credit for coming up with the new Metro interface. It shows willingness to innovate and a few good ideas, which is significant from such a big company and such an old Windows franchise, but frankly, the WebOSA people were doing about as well—and they didn't make a go of it.
@rmerritt, i think a coup against Microsoft… why cant the comapny strike a good partner? Me i love one-man army battle.
@AnnaY: yes, at the end you are right.
mfrobertozzi: I've read that Msoft is going the retial store route. I'm not sure that is a great idea. Apple has a unique product: Msoft is sold even in bookstores.
@mfbertozzi, Microsoft will indeed be selling the Surface only online and at its branded store.
@Rich, i dont think MS may willing for a collaborative project with Nokia
@Rick: I like the Metro interface as well. But it's only good on the tablets. It's very unusable on Windows 8 on laptops!
@Waqas: Yes, MS and Nokia are the one solid partnership in the Windoews Post PC era but ironically both are struggling to be relevent, and more ironically MSoft stole Nokia away from Intel!
@ Rich
Well Nokia has been around as a giant for around a decade. Once a champion makes it most likely for it to make a comeback. Secondly, its Asha series hasnt done that bad.
Soon these device will be powerful enough to be virtualized and run multiple operating systems. Would be cool to have one device that can run iOS, Android, and MS.
@Bolaji/Barbara: it is really a matter to debate !
@Bolaji, MS price band is in little bit higher side, $700 – 900, would u think its fair enough to get enough customers
This is for Amold Gates – From a industry leader MS to – now – to a follower MS – how does it feel?
I don't buy the argument that in the new consumer era one company has to do all the software and hardware. Apple is doing great things, but so is Google with a horizontal model
@Rich all of Finland? We'll have to ask Susan about an insider's perspective on that.
@ rmerritt
“Microsoft stole Nokia away from Intel”. Isnt Intel supposed to be only a hardware manufacturer and MS a software/OS manufacturer ? How has MS stolen away Nokia from Intel? Am I too outdated :S ?
@WaqasAltaf, if champions come back could not deliver better thing to its rivals dont you think it may signal bad results
Rick, Correct. Microsoft doesn't have to be in the hardware business to be a successful player. But what then explains its decision to go into the tablet PC business? Desperation?
Nokia has its experience in mobile going for it. But with a few exceptions, its hardware is getting so-so reviews. Combining two relative weaklings in hardware could be a problem.
@ Ariella
Lolz. I bet Susan is going to come with a strong argument against it 🙂
@Waqas: Intel had a collabotration with Nokia on an Atom-based handset. After Nokia got a new CEO, he scrapped the Intel deal and went all in withy Msoft in Win 8. We'll see how that plays out in the next 2-3 years. I suspect, poorly.
Good question, Bolaji. There's also the “Well, Google did it” argument
@WaqasAltaf, in any case, I don't think she's moving east for now.
@ Wale
I think Nokia is a sunk ship and now the only way it can go is UP. So having nothing to lose, Nokia can correct itself.
Possibly desperation I think?
@ Ariella
😀
@Rich but, you never know, she may want to learn Korean in any case.
@ rmerritt
Ahh. Thanks for the update.
RichK: Are they even Facebook friends?
Is Apple needs to be worried about Surface tablet ?
@Waqas, if MS is planning for a tie up with Nokia, then its a breathing chance for Nokia
@Bola: I think MS was desperate to get a good Win 8 tablet out. The NYT had a great report a couple weeks ago about their efforts with HP and how both companies dropped the ball at different stages and ways. So they wanted to get somethinhg out.
@Rich anything is possible.
@Barbara/Bolaji/Rick (all): apart Apple, event happened recently are demonstrating vendors which are spending effort in both hw and OS, are facing strong crisis (Nokia, RIM), on the other side Samsung, by focusing on hw, is gaining success, has MSFT well evaluated impacts in playing both hw and sw?
@Jacob i dont think so..I think best option for Nokia is to adopt Android.
Don't knock the space elevator…I have already booked my ticket.
Rick: Any additional insight into the components behind Surface? Who stands to benefit?
Of course that should cause a worrisome minds to Apple
Did you mention the BOM for the Surface versus the competition?
@Barbara, I too had similar doubts…Which process is being used in Surface tablet ?
@flyingscot you'll be sure to give us a report, right?
@Rick: Do you think MS is taking the right step by making a name for itself in the hardware market? It's not been so well-known for developing hardware over the years.
@tirlapur, thats the best option, but i don't think it will work it out.
@Rick, As far as the semiconductor component market is concerned. Who benefits most from Surface?
Good question Barbara.
@Barbara: I haven't seen many details on who is designed into Surface. But I expect SAurface to be maybe as successful as Zune, perhpas more successful than Kin, so whoever is designed in there ain't getting a big or long ride.
@ Jacob
True !
Any idea about the pricing of Surface? Would it be as expensive as the iPad or will it be a mid-range tablet?
@Rick, why is MS so hesitant to handover the tablet to reporter ? I heard it didnt let the reporters use the tablet ?
What would we say as a USP of surface compared to all the tablets available in the market today?
Barbara, when Google is offering Nexus 7 at a dam cheap price of $199, is it possible for MS to gain a good momentum in Tablet market
Has anyone seen a believeable BoM for Surface? I have not. I might assume a tegra 3 because of Tegra use in the Zune. Beyond that I know nothing and assume it is generally available parts, nothinhg unique inside.
@Rick, The Surface is designed with both Intel and ARM processors.
@Prabhkar I think one of the USP is its windows based which is widely adopted OS.
Rick–me either. But how about the Xbox example? Zune failed, but msoft has a few successes as well…
@TaimoorZ, good. I dont think Surface tablet would cost that much
@Taimoor, Surface is going to be fix between $699 and $899
@TaimoorZ: good point, I've googled about, it seems a matter for hooking users
@prabhakar: I think the USP can be the interface because a lot of people are comfortable using Windows so the Surface can have a similar UI..apart from it integration with other Windows-based systems can also be one.
Jacob: I think Msoft will either have to be a price leader or a tech leader. I don't think it will be able to comete on price–not should it, if Apple is its target
@anandvy: I suspect Msoft may want to leave wiggle room to tweak the design before the GA of Win 8. Who knows, they might even kill it if some OEMs got fired up to do cool products with Win 8. They just want Win 8 toi be a winner in tablets
@Bolaji, Why do they need two processors ?
anandvy
But that is not as popular as Android today
@Jacob so the only thing that is fairly certain is that the price will end in 9.
thanks @Jacobs
@RichK: Yes, because Win8 has versions for ARM and x86 there are systems planned for each processor type.
@prabhakar, remember symbian was once the popular OS now its android…so nothing is constant in this competitive world.
@TaimoorZ: (price) it seems the range 600$-800$ could be raisonable.
@Rich thank you.
Anandvy
But Apples IOS has stayed put!!
@mfbertozzi: I think with that price range it will have to compete with the iPad and Samsung Galaxy head-to-head..I don't think MS has much chance of success there.
If we could find out who makes Surface for MS we might be able to find out what's inside it.
Readers: $600-$800 for a tablet still seems steep. If it works like a PC, maybe, but they still seem to be entertainment-oriented
@Rich, Alright. I am a bit perplexed. Are you implying that the Surface would not make any impact on the tablet PC market or that it's still a wait-and-see situation?
@Rich, that's very important to consumers. If price is far too outrageous and quality is far behind Apple's iPad and Samsung's … i bet Surface would struggle like its predecessors (HP, RIM)
@All: are you thinking Surface demo effect could impact on sales?
@prabhakar, Apple is different league all together. I am just comparign non-Apple OS.
Will MS have exclisive arranegments with its suppliers for the Supplies related to SURFACE?
@Barbara, I believe Microsoft wants to position the Surface to work more or less like a notebook. The connectors it offers will distinguish it from the iPad.
@Rich Kr: Ha ha ha ! great idea !!! ROTFL
Will google nexus tablet play spoil-sport to the surface tablet. Remember nexus-7 is just priced around 199$.
@Barbara it does seem steep to me, but it's up to the companies to research what the market will bear for pricing.
If I were an OEM, I might not even do a Win8 tablet at this point. However, I would experiment with prototyping Android notebooks!
Rick: A couple of educated guesses. Solectron was involved in the development and manufactruing of the Xbox. They had a pretty big US presence, and may still have since they have been acquired. That means Flextronics, I think…
@Barbara (price): by googling about, other rumors say about 400$….who knows?
@Rich, surface is priced more than IPad
So, it appears Apple still holds the lead in the Tablet pc market or is it too soon to conclude Rick?
Will MS SURFACE be manufactrued in US , bringing back the “Made in USA” pride tag?
Ipad is a proven brand and Surface has yet to prove technically
@Rick, do you think Nokia will slowly move away from MS because they will feel betrayed ?
Or “USA INSIDE” tag I would say
@prabhakar: only is it stand the quality test as well
What if M.surface pulls it off despite all the review and various opinions Rick
@Anna: Apple definitelty has the lead in the tablet market. Samsung, Amazon, Asus, Google, MS, all are struggling for a small piece of that pie
@Prabhakar, I think nexus is already using that strategy…
I dont think MS will need such marketing strategy because many people love windows OS.
@anandvy, so far google hadnot revealed about its manufacturing place
I am sure in the ever growing Tablet market MS is detined to get a sizable market share if its first entry of Surface gives a bug free product
@trila: Nokia's new CEO made an all-in bet on Wi4Phones and he will probably succeed or fail with that bet. But it takes at least another 1`-2 years for that bet to play out before shareholder put on pressure
@Jacob, true but its being manufactured in USA
@Rick, Microsoft is going with both hardware and software for the tablet PC market. Why is it declining to do this in the smartphone market? Because of the alliance with Nokia?
Rick: do you think Msoft can afford the “release it first, work the bugs out later” strategy with the Surface?
@All: What tablet do you use and how much did you pay for it. Me: none; Zero
@anand, they made a statement thst “Designed and manufactured in USA”, but they undiscosure about the place of manufacturing
I think the tablet market still has room for a big player like Microsoft but their product needs to offer something unique that other vendors have not yet offered.
@rmerritt, same here, I dont own any…want to buy one but confused…
@merritt I fal into the none, zero category for now. But down the road, who knows?
I do nto believe MS can afford to release then fix bugs.
@ anandvy
I think people love Windows OS on laptops and desktops. Still not on smartphones.
I dont own any tablet too..
I have yet to use a tablet !
@Barbara: The tablet market is not like Windows where you vcanh iterate and win with release 3.0 In tablets if it doesnt succeed, bury it and try a whole new one. There's no forgiveness in consumer devices for a Surface Re-paved product
@Rick, I don't own any tablet. My laptop works for me
@prabhakar, am chatting from my Samsung 620 Tablet
@all: will MS move the production to other countries depending on sales' trend?
We have Apple tablets for surfing the web only. It is a toy really.
@Rick, I like that comment. No surface repaving if Microsoft fails with the Surface! I might just use that for a headline.
Rick: that was my thought as well. There won't be any free patches for a tablet.
I reveiewed a Samsunbg Galxay tab and enjoyed playiong with it. Then gave it away. Ditto a RIM Playbook (which had muchy more sophisticated software) but it sits unused in the drawer today. I get eno0ugh screen time without a tab and when I need to compute its a handset for a quickie or a notebook for a full sized meal
@mfbertozzi, i think they will release it globally for a wide usage
@Bola: You can send me a royalty check for the “re-paving” headline 😉
In my opinion Tablet is a good tool for education. Not for business.
Rick: and now we have the big smartphone and possible, a smaller Apple tablet. Does size really matter? 🙂
Oh, and the Samsung Galxy tab I gave to my son, he sold for a set of new tires!
@Prabhakar, it's widely used more in schools and hospitals
@rmerritt, Samsung Galaxy is not good ?
Rick: did he win the Chevvy Volt? 🙂
I was thinking to buy Galaxy series tablet.
@Barbara: The new large size handsets from Samsung et all are very popular in Asia now. I think Samsung may have hit 0on a little differentiator ahead of the iPhone 5. This is thye kind of iterative innovation from all sides that will be hard for Apple to deal with long term
@tirlapur, Galaxy is handy and good for on the go usage
@p_d: (education) great point, I aim Govs will launch projects about by adopting tablets for people
And that is why it has to be a cheap but a rugged product . Will SURFACE be able to meet those expectations?
@Jacob, thanks. So many new tablets are being released, I just dont want to rush and buy tablet which will be obselete soon.
Governement of India has already lauched such project by providing tablets to all students at subsideized cost.
@p_d: if we look to the past, MS has needed to develop a few version of the initial products before meeting with expectations.
@Rick: Not just big size, Samsung is coming up with all kinds of sets. They have a very diversified product line for smartphones
@prabhakar,surface is yet to be tried and tested.
Rick: I'd like to give you the opportunity for any closing comments. Anything we didn't cover on the Surface you'd like to add?
My view as a consumer on tabs:
iPad: excellent
Galaxy Tab: Good, but softeware is still crude
RIM Playbook: Great but screen is too small and does not link to cellular well
Amazon Kindle Fire: Great and nice links to the Amazon site to make shopping easy. Probably Apple's closest competitor so far
Prabhakar, $50 tablets are not worth
I think we covered it all. I would say this is still early days in tablets. Much more to come
@Rich you have very admirable wishes.
@p_d (education): nice to hear about, very good, hope that project can act as example also for other regions.
I agree with rmerritt summary of tablets available
Readers: any closing comments (or shots?) 🙂
@Rich the thing is that people expect a lot less than when they spend $50 than when they spend $700.
@rich, i mean in functionality
Rick, Thank you for an interesting discussion on Microsoft.
Tablets are still not being taken seriously . It is still a curiosity toy!
thanks all
@Ariella, quite right. Rich certainly has too many wishes.
@Barbara are you implying that we're a rowdy bunch?
My pleasure and honor. You guys do a great job running these things!
@Prabhakar, that project was a big failure, no body got the tablets in the end.
For those who are not aware, Rick is also an authority on patents, a topic of great interest to the electronics industry nowadays. I am hoping Rick would agree sometime soon to be our guest on EBN discussing the patent litigations.
@Rick (tablet rank): why are you forgetting other cheaper vendors as Acer for example?
Ariella: Mostly just Rich K…
@Rick,thanks for sharing your views… really informative…
To conclude, I'd say MS needs to offer something unique with Surface and make sure the software is bug-free. This might give them a chance to excel in the tablets market
@anand, i think they had reinitiated the same project with sme other agencies
@Rich Well, it's that way with a lot of things that are very high priced when they first come out but become cheaper and better in new editions. Those who want to be first are paying the premium to say they have the very latest toys.
Yes, Rick–thanks! Also to our readers. I'll start winding this up. Thanks again everybody!
Thanks Rick for your sound insight.
@Rick/Bolaji/Barbara: thanks for this very interesting live chat, Rick thanks for your time.
Thank you all for attending today's Live Chat and please join us next time on this channel.
Thanks, Rick, Bolaji, and Barbara.
@Rick, Bolaji, Barbara, thank you for hosting this…as always very informative.
Thanks Rick and the EBN team for setting this up. Very informative.
Thanks, Bolaji, Barbara and Rick
Rick, Bolaji, Barbara and all , it was quite an interactive session and this time we all got sufficient time to shoot our questions. Thanks
thanks Babs and Bolaji for putting this together.
Thanks all!
Thanks everybody and hope we can have a better discussion next time
Tara all.
Readers and guests: Yes, we are getting the hang of these Live Chats. They are fun, and we have a smart group of people participating. Thanks again!
Thanks Barbara once again for hosting this wonderful chat section
Thanks Bolaji, Barbara and team !
@Rich — You are actually very funny. But I have to put my Control Freak on and keep the conversation on course….sigh
This implise that they would be great sales turnover if this strategy is used by the Microsoft Cooparation as compared to other software manufacturers across the globe.