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Nokia’s Troubles: Implications for Suppliers & Other Partners

357 comments on “Nokia’s Troubles: Implications for Suppliers & Other Partners

  1. Junko Yoshida
    June 21, 2012

    Hello! I am tesing if this is working!

  2. Susan Fourtané
    June 21, 2012

    Hello, Junko. I am testing, too. 

  3. Junko Yoshida
    June 21, 2012

    Hi, Susan!

     

  4. Susan Fourtané
    June 21, 2012

    Lovely to have you here, Junko. And the chat works perfectly. 🙂

  5. Susan Fourtané
    June 21, 2012

    Here, from Nokia's homeland of Finland I am looking forward to this chat-presentation. And well, the feeling is that Nokia is not dead yet.  

  6. Junko Yoshida
    June 21, 2012

    So, you are in Finland?! Far out.

     

  7. Ashu001
    June 21, 2012

    @Susan-r u back from Greece?

  8. Ashu001
    June 21, 2012

    @Susan-Yes ur perspective on this issue will be most critical.

  9. Ashu001
    June 21, 2012

    @Susan-Have the job cuts annouced by Nokia over the last few months affected unemployment/mood in Finland today?

  10. Susan Fourtané
    June 21, 2012

    @Juko: Yes, I am in Finland. Celebrating Midsummer and the Midnight Sun starting tomorrow until Sunday. 🙂 24 hours of light, non-stop. 

  11. Susan Fourtané
    June 21, 2012

    @Tech4… (why you always choose long user names? :p ) That trip didn't happen yet, it's for Oct or Nov. I am back from Sweden, though. 

  12. Ashu001
    June 21, 2012

    @Susan-wow! u r lucky 24 hours of non-stop Sun! Amazing!!

  13. bolaji ojo
    June 21, 2012

    This is Bolaji Ojo, editor in chief of EBN. We will begin our Live Chat with Junko Yoshida, chief of international correspondents at EE Times and former editor in chief of the publication in five minutes. Please standby.

  14. Susan Fourtané
    June 21, 2012

    @Tech4…But you know what I think: Where there is still life, there is hope.

  15. prabhakar_deosthali
    June 21, 2012

    Good morning, afternoon, evening everybody

     

  16. Wale Bakare
    June 21, 2012

    Hi Everyone!

  17. Susan Fourtané
    June 21, 2012

    @Tech4…: Well, yes. Finland has not been indifferent to the latest news. There is some gloomy mood here and there. But still, Finns say: “Nokia is not dead yet!”, despite there is more pesimism than times before, you see. 

  18. Wale Bakare
    June 21, 2012

    Good afternoo ( here)

  19. Taimoor Zubar
    June 21, 2012

    Hi everyone! 🙂

  20. Barbara Jorgensen
    June 21, 2012

    Hi everyone. This is Barb, and Bolaji will get things rolling in one minute. Bolaji?

     

  21. Susan Fourtané
    June 21, 2012

    @Tech4… And yes, the Midnight Sun is amazing, very, very beautiful. I wrote about Midsummer as part of one of my blogs, I believe. 

  22. bolaji ojo
    June 21, 2012

    Welcome to today's Live Chat. First, a few words of introduction about Junko.

  23. DataCrunch
    June 21, 2012

    Hello Everyone

  24. Junko Yoshida
    June 21, 2012

    Hi, all. I am happy to be here.

  25. Susan Fourtané
    June 21, 2012

    Hello, Bolaji, Barbara, Taimoor, Wale, Prabhakar, Dave, and everyone else about to eneter the chat

  26. bolaji ojo
    June 21, 2012

    Junko Yoshida has been covering the electronics industry for more than 20 years and spent a major part of that period reporting on the consumer electronics industry. She has been reporting on the companies that manufacture the products as well as their components suppliers. She was until recently editor in chief for print and online at EE Times and has recently assumed the position of chief of international correspondents for the publication. Junko is well positioned to comment on the industry.

  27. Ashu001
    June 21, 2012

    @Susan-Very true.Where there is Life there is Hope!Nokia is far from dead!

  28. Junko Yoshida
    June 21, 2012

    I have been covering consumer electronics for a while; and Nokia is in fact especially near and dear to my heart

     

  29. bolaji ojo
    June 21, 2012

    As usual, Junko will start with some introductory remarks. Please hold off on your questions until we give the go-ahead.

  30. Houngbo_Hospice
    June 21, 2012

    Hello, everyone!

  31. Anand
    June 21, 2012

    hello everyone.

  32. Houngbo_Hospice
    June 21, 2012

    Glad to be here, it has been a while now!

  33. Junko Yoshida
    June 21, 2012

    OK. As some of you on this chat already mentioned, I think the death of Nokia is greatly exaggerated

     

  34. bolaji ojo
    June 21, 2012

    I will also chime in with some comments.

  35. Anand
    June 21, 2012

    I was really confused about the date 🙂

  36. Houngbo_Hospice
    June 21, 2012

    Hi, SF!

  37. Wale Bakare
    June 21, 2012

    Welcome @HH

  38. Junko Yoshida
    June 21, 2012

    And yet, I think it's worrying to all of us — we all want to know what went wrong and what is next

     

  39. prabhakar_deosthali
    June 21, 2012

    Welcome Susan – you are right there – in Finland- on the spot where the problem is!

  40. Anand
    June 21, 2012

    @Junko why do you think its exaggerated, Nokias stocks are trading at life time low 

  41. Susan Fourtané
    June 21, 2012

    My last hello to @HH, and @anandvy. Let's wait until Bolaji gives us green light to jump into the floor. 🙂

  42. Wale Bakare
    June 21, 2012

    @Junko, very correct!

  43. bolaji ojo
    June 21, 2012

    Please hold your comments and questions until we give the go-ahead.

  44. Barbara Jorgensen
    June 21, 2012

    Hi Junko–can you share your views as to why not?

  45. Houngbo_Hospice
    June 21, 2012

    You too, @Wale Baker!

  46. Junko Yoshida
    June 21, 2012

    OK. Let me start. Why Nokia is not dead

  47. Junko Yoshida
    June 21, 2012

    As many of you already know, Nokia is one company that has reinvented itself so many times

     

  48. Houngbo_Hospice
    June 21, 2012

    Of course, we will @Bolaji

  49. SunitaT
    June 21, 2012

    Hi all

  50. Junko Yoshida
    June 21, 2012

    If I remember correclty, the company was in the paper business originally. Correct, Susan?

  51. bolaji ojo
    June 21, 2012

    Correct. It used to be in the wood and papermill business. That was its root from the 19th Century, I believe.

  52. Junko Yoshida
    June 21, 2012

    Anyway, what I am saying is that Nokia doesn't have to stick to what it has been doing in the last couple of decades

    it can re-invent itself again

  53. Junko Yoshida
    June 21, 2012

    But of course, for the purpose of this LIVE CHAT, let's stick to the mobile business Nokia is in for now

  54. Taimoor Zubar
    June 21, 2012

    @Junko: From what I know Nokia was into rubber business.

  55. bolaji ojo
    June 21, 2012

    To back up that point, I would like to note Nokia is still a very BIG company and what happens to the company will impact many of the companies in its ecosystem.

  56. prabhakar_deosthali
    June 21, 2012

    We used to import  29″ picture rubes from Nokia in 90's

  57. Junko Yoshida
    June 21, 2012

    ah, good point

  58. Junko Yoshida
    June 21, 2012

    Anyway, if I may, I would like to start this chat, talking about what went wrong with Nokia

  59. Barbara Jorgensen
    June 21, 2012

    OK. Clearly, mobile is challenging–RIM is also struggling. Where should Nokia look for its next reinvention?

  60. Junko Yoshida
    June 21, 2012

    Because that may give us some clues what Nokia must do next

  61. bolaji ojo
    June 21, 2012

    Just some background. In 2011, Nokia had more than $50 billion in annual sales and its costs of goods sold is still an impressive $35 billion.

  62. Junko Yoshida
    June 21, 2012

    I was talking to one of my sources yesterday… a company that makes a ton of mobile chips for mobile handsets today

  63. bolaji ojo
    June 21, 2012

    What this means is that a lot of companies' bread and butter hangs on what Nokia does next.

  64. Junko Yoshida
    June 21, 2012

    they are based in Taiwan

  65. DataCrunch
    June 21, 2012

    I would like to see the Microsoft-Nokia partnership succeed and provide more options in the mobile space.  The Lumina devices look nice…but Microsoft is releasing it's new Phone 8 platform in the Fall of this year.  The upgrade is so dramatic that the new Lumina devices that are out now will not be able to utlize the Microsoft OS.  

  66. Susan Fourtané
    June 21, 2012

    @JUnko: Before being a paper business, Nokia manufactured rubber boots, that was the very start of Nokia. As you said very well, Nokia has reinvented itself many, many, many times; and it might do it again. (Sorry, Bolaji, I had to reply to her Q)

  67. bolaji ojo
    June 21, 2012

    Susan, That's fine.

  68. Junko Yoshida
    June 21, 2012

    good point

    Anyway, let me finish what I started saying

  69. bolaji ojo
    June 21, 2012

    Dave, We'll do a separate Live Chat on Microsoft. For now, we'll stick to Nokia.

  70. Junko Yoshida
    June 21, 2012

    A lot of people equate Nokia's downfall to the company's inability to catch up wiht the smartphone business…but I think that's missing the point

  71. DataCrunch
    June 21, 2012

    I meant Lumia…not Lumina..sorry

  72. Junko Yoshida
    June 21, 2012

    Where Nokia truly failed is in its bread and butter business — feature phones

  73. Junko Yoshida
    June 21, 2012

    especially in China

  74. bolaji ojo
    June 21, 2012

    Dave, I apologize. That's related. Let's wait, though, for Junko to finish her point.

  75. Junko Yoshida
    June 21, 2012

    As my Taiwan source was saying, Nokia was a victim of its own process

     

  76. bolaji ojo
    June 21, 2012

    How's that Junko? How did the failure in the feature phone market wound Nokia?

  77. Junko Yoshida
    June 21, 2012

    Nokia is a big company, it does a ton of processes, and it does it well

    but it is not exactly the fastest company to respond to what may appear to be small changes on the surface

     

  78. Ashu001
    June 21, 2012

    @Junko-Sorry to interrupt but by Feature Phones do u mean Basic Phones or Advanced Smartphones?

  79. Junko Yoshida
    June 21, 2012

    Take an example of double SIM cards trend in feature phones in China

  80. bolaji ojo
    June 21, 2012

    I suspect you are referring to its ability to retain the leading market share it had n the basic phones market.

  81. Junko Yoshida
    June 21, 2012

    in this context, I am talking about basic phones

     

  82. bolaji ojo
    June 21, 2012

    Dave, Correct. Feature phone is industry speak for basic phones.

  83. Junko Yoshida
    June 21, 2012

    yes

  84. SunitaT
    June 21, 2012

    Junko what exactly do you mean by victim of its own process?

  85. bolaji ojo
    June 21, 2012

    The double SIM trend hasn't spread widely in the West but it is a part of daily life for many people in emerging economies.

  86. Junko Yoshida
    June 21, 2012

    anyway, there are a few reasons. First, Nokia didn't think much of dual SIM cards trend. they thought they knew this feature phone market better than anyone else

  87. Barbara Jorgensen
    June 21, 2012

    I am a fan of basic phones…what's the double SIMM and how did Nokia stumble?

     

  88. Junko Yoshida
    June 21, 2012

    Meanwhile, Nika was mired in the development of so-called feature phone experience — both hardware and software included

  89. bolaji ojo
    June 21, 2012

    These are basically phones that have slots for dual SIM cards, enabling the owner to have two different phone lines and number on the same device.

  90. SunitaT
    June 21, 2012

    @Bolaji you are right, many people here prefer double SIM, They maintain different SIm for messaging and for making calls.

  91. Junko Yoshida
    June 21, 2012

    It's a lot to take on — for a handset company; but Nokia did everything from defining the spec, developing software, selecting chips, integrating software and hardware…

  92. Adeniji Kayode
    June 21, 2012

    are you saying Nokia going into double sims was a mistake

  93. Junko Yoshida
    June 21, 2012

    no, Nokia was LATE in getting into the double SIM card phone

  94. Adeniji Kayode
    June 21, 2012

    @ junko, I agree with you on that

     

  95. Junko Yoshida
    June 21, 2012

    Anyway, if you are a much smaller company, spot a trend, you are more likely to respond to small changes in the market much more quickly

  96. bolaji ojo
    June 21, 2012

    What Junko is saying is that Nokia didn't see the dual SIM cards phones as a rival until too late.

  97. Junko Yoshida
    June 21, 2012

    without a long conference call, delayed decision making, etc.

  98. Ashu001
    June 21, 2012

    @barbara-see what happens typically is people like to switch operators(depending on who gives them the best deal).for this they use dual sim phones on one device(very common in India and China today)

  99. Wale Bakare
    June 21, 2012

    @Adeniji i think you need to wait a bit…

     

  100. Anand
    June 21, 2012

    But Junko do feel the the biggest mistake of Nokia was not adopting Android ?

  101. Junko Yoshida
    June 21, 2012

    Nokia missed the boat

  102. bolaji ojo
    June 21, 2012

    Junko, Does this have anything to do with where Nokia is located and the decision making process where everything is referred first to the headquarters?

  103. Adeniji Kayode
    June 21, 2012

    okay, i,m sorry for that

  104. Barbara Jorgensen
    June 21, 2012

    OK. Strike one. Did they improve on the trend one they got it?

  105. Junko Yoshida
    June 21, 2012

    No, that comes much later

  106. Junko Yoshida
    June 21, 2012

    Nokia was already losing control over its bread and butter feature phone market

  107. bolaji ojo
    June 21, 2012

    Okay, please go on.

  108. Houngbo_Hospice
    June 21, 2012

    But do iPhones have double SIM capability?

  109. Junko Yoshida
    June 21, 2012

    That's my main point. They lost control of procuremtn of the most cost effective chips, the most cost effective software, the most cost effective designs

  110. bolaji ojo
    June 21, 2012

    I will answer or try to answer any questions posed to Junko until she's finished making her points.

  111. Ashu001
    June 21, 2012

    @houngbo-No Iphones dont have dual sim capability-Samsung and LG are the market leaders here.

  112. Junko Yoshida
    June 21, 2012

    Because they wanted to do all that on their own terms through their own processes

  113. bolaji ojo
    June 21, 2012

    Please hold your questions for her unless it is directed to EBN editors.

  114. Wale Bakare
    June 21, 2012

    Where in smartphone market do you think Nokia phone is pulling
    more sales than its rivals?

  115. bolaji ojo
    June 21, 2012

    Junko, As Barbara was asking, what else did they do wrong?

  116. mfbertozzi
    June 21, 2012

    I have a question for Junko/Bolaji (and everyone of course…): aparte Apple, it seems market leadership is currently for vendors which are focusing on products instead of products+OS; is it a possible key for explaining good position achieved by Samsung in front of Nokia difficulties a much effort from them spent in products and OS?

  117. ITempire
    June 21, 2012

    Hi everyone

  118. Junko Yoshida
    June 21, 2012

    We are talking about procurement here, right? I think the fact that Nokia was trying to develop everything on their own terms is the biggest mistake

  119. Ashu001
    June 21, 2012

    @Wale-thats a tough sell today-Nokia is very good in super-cheap and High Quality phones.only issue is margins are very slim there.

  120. Junko Yoshida
    June 21, 2012

    someone like MediaTek or Mstar came along — they are both from Taiwan

  121. bolaji ojo
    June 21, 2012

    It's really important for this discussion for participants to hold questions and all comments unless absolutely necessary until we've opened the floor. I would like to do this in about 10 minutes but Junko has to set the stage with her introductory remarks. Please hold all questions and comments for now. Thank you.

  122. Junko Yoshida
    June 21, 2012

    and develop their own hardware and software package — a turnkey solution — and give it to any OEMs in China, they can make feature phones a lot cheaper than Nokia

  123. ITempire
    June 21, 2012

    @ Junko

    can u please elaborate on that ? was it not taking into account consumers or supply chain ?

  124. Barbara Jorgensen
    June 21, 2012

    Junko: got it. Make vs. buy. So they could have developed more efficient, less costly phones had they worked with suppliers?

  125. Junko Yoshida
    June 21, 2012

    there is very little that Nokia can add in terms of value — excetp for its own brand

  126. bolaji ojo
    June 21, 2012

    Okay, Junko. But they are not that integrated. Nokia does not make its own chipsets and it is now outsourcing manufacturing.

  127. DataCrunch
    June 21, 2012

    Wouldn't you contribute the lack of a well defined App Store use and developer experience as part of Nokia's issue…Apple had the iTunes platform to leverage and provided a revenue stream for developers and a easy, simple, but powerful App platform??

  128. ITempire
    June 21, 2012

    @ Junko

    Oh ok. I got it. Its true that if everyone is taking advantage of cheap raw material, Nokia shouldnt lag behind

  129. Junko Yoshida
    June 21, 2012

    Remember? Nokia didn't let go of their own ASIC teams until mid 2000

  130. bolaji ojo
    June 21, 2012

    PLEASE HOLD ALL QUESTIONS UNTIL I GIVE THE GO-AHEAD. THANK YOU.

  131. Junko Yoshida
    June 21, 2012

    it's not just raw material

  132. ITempire
    June 21, 2012

    Most consumers look for cost. They can compromise a bit on quality. I mean most. Not all

  133. DataCrunch
    June 21, 2012

    I don't think hardware features were the issues.  Nokia made some innovative devices and were full of features.

     

  134. Junko Yoshida
    June 21, 2012

    I am talking about the integrated hardware and software. Nokia thought they can do it better than anyone else; but MediaTek pretty much ate their lunch

  135. Barbara Jorgensen
    June 21, 2012

    Junko: Nokia still seems to have strong brand identity, but I get the feeling users are waiting for the next great thing. Is that an innovation or product?

  136. Nemos
    June 21, 2012

    Hello to all ,

  137. Junko Yoshida
    June 21, 2012

    exactly, Dave. I am not simply talking about hardware

  138. Junko Yoshida
    June 21, 2012

    @barbara, it's both innovation and product

  139. Nemos
    June 21, 2012

    Sorry for the latency ,I was confused with the time

  140. Junko Yoshida
    June 21, 2012

    honestly speaking, even had Nokia moved to Android, I don't think they had much chance

  141. mfbertozzi
    June 21, 2012

    @WaqasAltaf: you are right, as consequence people have decided to buy products from FarEast, for example and cheaper smartphone, despite the quality; I am wondering if this is an additional cause for putting Nokia in trouble.

  142. Junko Yoshida
    June 21, 2012

    Actually, I happen to think Nokia's Windows phone is not bad

  143. DataCrunch
    June 21, 2012

    Apple had iTunes and touch screen…that's it… all the others device manufacturers sat by and waiting to see…then it was too late…until Android…and now hopefully Microsoft

     

  144. bolaji ojo
    June 21, 2012

    Junko, I have to open this up to our readers in a few minutes but I want to ask two key questions in the meantime. First, what does the current situation at Nokia mean for its suppliers and contractors and second, what does/can Nokia do to get back on track?

  145. Junko Yoshida
    June 21, 2012

    I think we all need to think of the global market … of course when we don't live in Asia, it's hard to do…but think about it, ChinaMobile alone has 660 million subscribers! 660 million!

  146. Houngbo_Hospice
    June 21, 2012

    apparently, Nokia trouble is mostly due the market shift they haven't been able to predict 

  147. mfbertozzi
    June 21, 2012

    @All: Winphone is not bad, but have you ever experienced how poor is APIsets comparing for example Symbian or Android for developers? Any thoughts about?

  148. Junko Yoshida
    June 21, 2012

    both are good questions, Bolaji. I don't think anybody can fix the current situation for suppliers

  149. Barbara Jorgensen
    June 21, 2012

    Could Nokia leap ahead, then, with a better OS? Wasn't Symbian their original offering?

  150. bolaji ojo
    June 21, 2012

    In other words, purely bad news for suppliers?

  151. DataCrunch
    June 21, 2012

    Symbian is much more complicated to use for developers compared to what is being used today. 

  152. ITempire
    June 21, 2012

    First, what does the current situation at Nokia mean for its suppliers and contractors

    I think many suppliers would be scared to keep long term agreements with Nokia as its future isnt bright. Distributors wont like to buy too much stock and would prefer something sort of just in time

  153. Junko Yoshida
    June 21, 2012

    But if you happen to be a supplier, it may be high time to think about bringing a set of really innovative — and cost effective — turnkey solutions to Nokia's attention

  154. FLYINGSCOT
    June 21, 2012

    Is this post getting through.  Website not responsive.

  155. Nemos
    June 21, 2012

    Wagas Hold your Question for a while

  156. Anand
    June 21, 2012

    @Junko do you think it was wrong strategy by Nokia not to adopt Android OS ? 

  157. bolaji ojo
    June 21, 2012

    Thank you all for your patience. Please send in your questions as well as comments. Junko will try to answer as many as she can and EBN editors will also chime in. We also welcome your own viewpoints as well.

  158. prabhakar_deosthali
    June 21, 2012

     Junko, My questions are

    1. Can you say that Nokia and RIM are in the same sinking boat today?

    2. Can the suppliers adopt the same policy of “Share of business” as the buyers to spread thin their business risk when one of their buyers suddenly goes bust?

    3. Is Nokia's survival as a company is solely dependent on its continued sucess in Mobile business or there are some other supporting businesses?

     

  159. Wale Bakare
    June 21, 2012

    @Junko, where is marekt strenght for Double sim-card phone presently?
    And i think those markets for dual-sim already crowded with phones from
    China. How do you think Nokia could compete with them?
    Produce a very lower cost ordinary phone?

  160. Junko Yoshida
    June 21, 2012

    @anandvy, that's a tough question

     

  161. Susan Fourtané
    June 21, 2012

    Thanks, @Junko, and @Bolaji. 

  162. mfbertozzi
    June 21, 2012

    @Dave: I agree with you and in my opinion this is one of the key for explaining Android successfull…

  163. Junko Yoshida
    June 21, 2012

    had Nokia adopted Android, they may have been swallowed by other Android same old same old OEMs…but that said, Nokia could have been the NUMBER ONE quality Androdi phone vendor

  164. Anand
    June 21, 2012

    By not adopting Android Nokia helped both Samsung an LG to conquer smartphone market…

  165. Nemos
    June 21, 2012

    @Junko, Can you forecast what will come next for Nokia ?

  166. Junko Yoshida
    June 21, 2012

    that would have been awesome

  167. Junko Yoshida
    June 21, 2012

    that is correct @anandvy

  168. Barbara Jorgensen
    June 21, 2012

    Junko–great point about suppliers and turnkey solutions. Can you cite an example?

  169. bolaji ojo
    June 21, 2012

    I would go back to something Junko said earlier about how Nokia has reinvented itself several times in the past. We should note that Apple did the same. The company is not merely a PC vendor anymore. It has changed dramatically into a consumer electronics company. If Apple can do it, perhaps so can Nokia. The question, though, is which market should it be looking at.

  170. Taimoor Zubar
    June 21, 2012

    I think the turning point in the case of Nokia was the fact that they were too complacent with their products and did not want to have out of the box innovative products. This applies to touch screens, dual sims etc..

  171. Susan Fourtané
    June 21, 2012

    @Prabhakar: I don't believe Nokia and RIm are in the same sinking boat.

  172. bolaji ojo
    June 21, 2012

    @Susan, Why?

  173. Junko Yoshida
    June 21, 2012

    @nemos, boy, that's a tough question. I think they need to seriously look beyond handsets. I am actually very disappointed that they weren't asked by Microsoft to go with the tablet

  174. FLYINGSCOT
    June 21, 2012

    Nokia will merge or breakup.

  175. Adeniji Kayode
    June 21, 2012

    @Wale, Good question.

    Double sims are really sell like hot cake in the south band most of the developing countries but its a lot of competition between Nokia and the so -called  china phones especially Techno phones

     

  176. SunitaT
    June 21, 2012

    @Junko what do you think about the recently launched 41MP camera based mobile phone ? Do you think with this release Nokia will capture the market ?

  177. mfbertozzi
    June 21, 2012

    @Barbara: exactly, it was their original offer, but following steps made didn't have a good strategy, they have tried to replace Symbian by WinOS and now it seems their doing a step back…and QT…any comments about?

  178. DataCrunch
    June 21, 2012

    This is the first time I have heard that not having dual SIMs was a major contributor to Nokia's current problems. 

  179. Nemos
    June 21, 2012

    @Suzan I agree with you, two different situations , two different companies

  180. prabhakar_deosthali
    June 21, 2012

    Both have lagged behind in the samrtphones and have given leeway to Samsung and LG to surge ahead

  181. Wale Bakare
    June 21, 2012

    @Susan, is Nokia pulling better than RIM or in the opposite case?

  182. Junko Yoshida
    June 21, 2012

    @taimoorZ, I think there is some truth to that… but again, I have to go back to my original theory. They were too slow to see the emerging trend in the feature phone market. period.

  183. bolaji ojo
    June 21, 2012

    The bottom line of the current situation it seems is that suppliers to Nokia are going to get hammered for the next few years. As Nokia's sales have been falling so have the fortunes of these companies. That's going to remain the case for the companies that stick with Nokia through all these.

  184. Junko Yoshida
    June 21, 2012

    Unfortunately, that's the truth…but what do you think Nokia can do next?

  185. Wale Bakare
    June 21, 2012

    @Adeniji, thanks. market is getting hotter in those places unless someone come out with extremly low cost and top quality to compete well

  186. Taimoor Zubar
    June 21, 2012

    @Bolaji: Aren't these suppliers also working with other OEMs? They shouldn't be dependent on just one principal.

  187. Barbara Jorgensen
    June 21, 2012

    Junko: I agree–looking beyond handsets makes sense. Is the hybrid small/tablet big/smartphone and area in whihc Nokia could prosper?

  188. SunitaT
    June 21, 2012

    @Junko what do you think about Nokias new release Nokia 808…do you think 41MP camera will attract buyers ?

  189. Ashu001
    June 21, 2012

    @All-As far as Apps go,its all a question of incentives.as an app developer I dont see enough incentives to develop an app for Symbian phones today.Atleast wid Apple and Android u have a HUge market to target.

  190. Adeniji Kayode
    June 21, 2012

    @Junko, do you think some Nokia phone having app to be able to ping with blackberry a good idea and what could be the effect of this on sales of nokia phones

  191. ITempire
    June 21, 2012

    @ Bolaji

    And this supplier dilemma will make things difficult for Nokia in its journey to the way up

  192. mfbertozzi
    June 21, 2012

    @Bolaji: it seems the picture looks very bad for the whole Nokia ecosystem. Could suppliers try to move their business by making agreement with other vendors as Samsung or LG? Is it feasible?

  193. Junko Yoshida
    June 21, 2012

    I love Nokia 808 — but I don't think one single advanced feature would save Nokia

  194. bolaji ojo
    June 21, 2012

    It can reinvent itself as you pointed out but I also think that the market is too dynamic for the kind of cost-cutting reorganization it is doing. That won't be enough to help it regain market share. It didn't work for Motorola Mobility.

  195. Wale Bakare
    June 21, 2012

    @Junko – Can you please tell us, would nokia continue with
    produce of mobile phone? If yes, what strategy do they have
    on that? Take into consideration -raw material and also
    21st century network devices compatibility with low cost phone

  196. Ashu001
    June 21, 2012

    @Taimoor-Good points.Most OEMs are not tied to any one Vendor.So I don't see how Nokia's demise will affect them much(after all its not like ppl are gonna stop buying phones).

  197. Junko Yoshida
    June 21, 2012

    I keep thinking what other strength Nokia has that it can use to its advantage

  198. Adeniji Kayode
    June 21, 2012

    I agree with you on that Wale, the question of quality is really big one in this matter

  199. SunitaT
    June 21, 2012

    Microsoft has started building its own hardware, will it impact Nokia too ?

  200. Ashu001
    June 21, 2012

    @Bolaji-Yeah what happened to Motorla Mobility? Is it still in the handset business? No clue.Honestly.

  201. Susan Fourtané
    June 21, 2012

    @Junko: I mostly agree with your viewpoints. I also like your thinking. I share the view that Nokia might reinvent itself, as so many times before. My idea of the fall of Nokia points at the actual leadership, most precisely at Elop. I truly believe if Elop would be the one leaving Nokia, the company would revive like a Phoenix. What do you think of this? 

  202. Junko Yoshida
    June 21, 2012

    you know, one thing we are forgetting is this: Nokia's biggest strength is its relationship with operators

  203. Nemos
    June 21, 2012

    @all, I am totally convinced that if Nokia look at the past will find the solution it needed for a successful future

  204. Adeniji Kayode
    June 21, 2012

    @Junko

    in what other area do you think Nokia can re-invest itself

  205. Junko Yoshida
    June 21, 2012

    Any global operators, if given a choice, would like to work with Nokia and buy their phones over other non-brand name Android phones

  206. Barbara Jorgensen
    June 21, 2012

    Junko: there are advantages to vertical integration. Even though Nokia missed the double-SIM trend, that capability must have some value

  207. Anand
    June 21, 2012

    Nokia's biggest strength is its relationship with operators”, isnt the same case with Apple also ?

  208. mfbertozzi
    June 21, 2012

    @tech4people: I agree without, this is another good point to highlight, for example contexts for Symbian are really rare, then why people have to develop by using that platform?

  209. Taimoor Zubar
    June 21, 2012

    @Junko: Don't all handset manufacturers now have good relationships with the carriers? I don't see how Nokia is standing out in that..

  210. Ashu001
    June 21, 2012

    @Susan-I am not so sure,its something u can blame just at ELOP.He's not that bad.

  211. Houngbo_Hospice
    June 21, 2012

    Will that Microsift-Nokia alliance still hold?

  212. Junko Yoshida
    June 21, 2012

    @adeniji…so if operators want to get into the business of tablet, or any IOT (internet of things) devices, Nokia would be a trusted partner

  213. ITempire
    June 21, 2012

    @ Susan

    Hmm. You have a point. Leadership can turn fortunes for organizations.

  214. Wale Bakare
    June 21, 2012

    Tough times ahead – Microsoft planning its own hardware.

  215. bolaji ojo
    June 21, 2012

    Junko, If I look at the landscape and wonder what Nokia should do next, I would say it is time for it to do one of two things as a short-term measure: First, embrace Android. Second, consider being acquired by Microsoft (bad idea.) The third possibility is for the company to not follow the leader and break out like Apple into some other areas.

  216. Nemos
    June 21, 2012

    @Barbara I think we are heading for the triple SIM trend….

  217. Ashu001
    June 21, 2012

    @Junko-What are the chances that Microsoft decides to buy out the Entire Nokia Handset business to enforce greater control over the whole process& experience?

  218. mfbertozzi
    June 21, 2012

    @Nemos: right now, have them right people for looking at the past? New people especially at executive level have replaced key managers.

  219. Junko Yoshida
    June 21, 2012

    @taimoorZ, i beg to differ

    Of course, you may be talking about tier one handset vendors… but when it comes to the interoperability within networks, etc. Nokia still rules

  220. Susan Fourtané
    June 21, 2012

    @Bolaji @Wale: Because Nokia and RIM are two different issues, two different companies. Saying they are in the same sinking boat is like saying two kids who are not doing well at some point at school will both be failures for the rest of their lives. Things can always change, in humans, or in companies. 

  221. Ashu001
    June 21, 2012

    @Susan-do u feel There will be a backlash in Finland if Microsoft decides to buy out Nokia's handset business entirely?

  222. Junko Yoshida
    June 21, 2012

    @tech4people, actually, i love the idea. Why not?

  223. Anand
    June 21, 2012

    @Nemos, triple SIM trend ? Is it true, i havent seen any such mobiles ?

  224. Nemos
    June 21, 2012

    @Bolaji “ First, embrace Android.” Indeed indeed 🙂

  225. prabhakar_deosthali
    June 21, 2012

    In today's world the roles are changing so rapidly that todays operators will become tomorrows manufacturers. That puts the real old age manufacturers like Nokia in trouble

  226. Junko Yoshida
    June 21, 2012

    Microsoft doesn't know anything about connected mobile device…all they know is the PC model

  227. Adeniji Kayode
    June 21, 2012

    @Nemos

    there is already a triple sim phone here but not in Nokia brands

  228. Susan Fourtané
    June 21, 2012

    @Tech4… he's not good either, not for Nokia. 

  229. mfbertozzi
    June 21, 2012

    @Bolaji/@Junko: is the future towards multi-SIM mobile handset or single-SIM mobile handset by running an innovative OS doable to hang any mobile networks?

  230. Houngbo_Hospice
    June 21, 2012

    Does that Microsift-Nokia alliance still mean anything?

  231. bolaji ojo
    June 21, 2012

    @Junko, Correct.

  232. Nemos
    June 21, 2012

    @Anandy :LG's triple SIM A290

  233. DataCrunch
    June 21, 2012

    I am not sure what Micorsoft will be buying from Nokia…old handsets that are not companitible with their OS??

     

  234. Ashu001
    June 21, 2012

    @Junko-Yes My sentiments exactly.I think it will be a good strategic fit.

  235. Junko Yoshida
    June 21, 2012

    @mfbertozzi, I don't know the answer to that

  236. mfbertozzi
    June 21, 2012

    @Nemos to Bolaji: I trust you…

  237. ITempire
    June 21, 2012

    @ Junko

    Its true. Microsoft is still young in smartphone OS industry and its competitors are too big.

  238. Adeniji Kayode
    June 21, 2012

    @Junko,

    is double sim phone a good idea in the west?

  239. Susan Fourtané
    June 21, 2012

    @Waqas: Exactly. I don't see Elop being a good leader. He doesn't have what it takes to lead Nokia at least. 

  240. SunitaT
    June 21, 2012

    @Junko, do you still believe Nokia provides one of the best hardware features ?

  241. Ashu001
    June 21, 2012

    @Dave-The Brand name+Relationships with Hardware Vendors.

  242. Junko Yoshida
    June 21, 2012

    @adeniji, I am not sure…but it could be…for example, on one SIM card, you do all your business calls, and you can use another SIm for your personal calls

  243. Barbara Jorgensen
    June 21, 2012

    One of the drawbacks to the Surface has to do with cellular capability. Does Nokia bring anything to the party there?

  244. Ashu001
    June 21, 2012

    @Adenji-its unlikely dual sims will fly in the west simply because most users have post-paid plans and competition is not half as fierce in Asia today.

  245. bolaji ojo
    June 21, 2012

    Folks, are we therefore writing off all Nokia suppliers and telling them to bail out on the company?

  246. Junko Yoshida
    June 21, 2012

    I know a lot of people carrying two phones… but they don't have to do that

  247. bolaji ojo
    June 21, 2012

    I ask because that's what I want us to focus on in this discussion.

  248. Susan Fourtané
    June 21, 2012

    @Tech4: For a company to buy something there has to be something for sale. Nokia is not for sale. 

  249. Taimoor Zubar
    June 21, 2012

    Has anyone noticed how Samsung has stepped up in the mobile phone market and has surpassed Nokia in terms of innovation? Nokia was always ahead of Samsung in the mobile phone market three or four years back..

  250. DataCrunch
    June 21, 2012

    The one thing Nokia has going for it is that it is still considered a leading mobile player (outside the US) and may still have siginificant brand loyalty.  If the company can hang on to that and rollout innovative Win-Nok devices, it may be able to regain its foothold…but it will be tough to compete in the high-end smartphone market

  251. Junko Yoshida
    June 21, 2012

    @bolaji, I think we first need to hear from Nokia what their future holds

  252. Wale Bakare
    June 21, 2012

    Well good news to supply chain – Microsoft is spreading its tentacle to hardware sector.

  253. Nemos
    June 21, 2012

    @Bolaji yes I think so

  254. bolaji ojo
    June 21, 2012

    If you supply semiconductors to Nokia right now, should you even be spending R&D funds developing products for the company?

  255. Anand
    June 21, 2012

    @Bolaji, I think so 

  256. Adeniji Kayode
    June 21, 2012

    @Junko

    what could be the alternative for the people carrying two phones

  257. Ashu001
    June 21, 2012

    @Susan-I understand that but it makes the most practical sense today.

  258. Barbara Jorgensen
    June 21, 2012

    Bolaji: As long as there are legacy systems, suppliers should hang tight. Plus, there are few companies that can afford to abandon even their struggling OEMs. I think it depends on whether they will havet o invest in new capabilities to support Nokia

  259. Junko Yoshida
    June 21, 2012

    @dave sasson, wtih all due respect, Nokia is even losing on that end of the battle..

  260. bolaji ojo
    June 21, 2012

    @Junko, So far what Nokia has said is that it will devote resources to feature phones and then compete (with lower pricing) against Android in smartphones.

  261. Junko Yoshida
    June 21, 2012

    @adeniji. use the dual SIM card phone!

  262. mfbertozzi
    June 21, 2012

    @Bolaji: imo, it depends on suppliers, I believe yes for hw suppliers and for sw suppliers could be a little bit stronger to accept.

  263. Ashu001
    June 21, 2012

    @Bolaji-regarding the funds question I feel most companies will probably scale back R&D funding dramatically unless they are incentivized by Nokia.

  264. Taimoor Zubar
    June 21, 2012

    @Bolaji: If the R&D is specific to Nokia products then suppliers need to be skeptical about it..or may be request Nokia to fund the research to be on the safe side

  265. Junko Yoshida
    June 21, 2012

    @bolaji… well, in fact, now that more and more smartphones are coming downstream, that does make sense

  266. FLYINGSCOT
    June 21, 2012

    I worry if Nokia goes down the lower pricing route.

  267. DataCrunch
    June 21, 2012

    @Junko, I agree…they are playing against time

  268. Nemos
    June 21, 2012

    @all which move do you think will lead Nokia or RIM out of the Market ?

  269. Junko Yoshida
    June 21, 2012

    @flyingscot, I don't think they will. they have already lost in that battle

  270. prabhakar_deosthali
    June 21, 2012

    Even the samrtphone prices are crashing making them a low margin business

  271. bolaji ojo
    June 21, 2012

    Increasingly, companies like Apple are differentiating themselves not just on the look and feel of the products but also in the hardware inside. Apple has its own inhouse chip design teams and even in displays it makes sure it can differentiate itself. If a supplier cannot be assured of sales specific to Nokia, for instance, it would not vote capex for that program.

  272. mfbertozzi
    June 21, 2012

    @TaimoorZ: Yes, I have, in my opinion it happened because Samsung has focused only on hw and has adopted Android spending limited effort in OS, against Nokia.

  273. Taimoor Zubar
    June 21, 2012

    @Nemos: I don't think there's a single move that can do the trick..it has to be many things they need to do

  274. Junko Yoshida
    June 21, 2012

    @all…one saving grace is this. I recently came back from China. I heard a lot of people complaining about the quality of their Android phones

  275. Susan Fourtané
    June 21, 2012

    @Tech4: Not everything what it seems to make sense is what it is to do. There is more in a decision that pure logic. And also, what makes sense to some, doesn't make sense to others. 

  276. Barbara Jorgensen
    June 21, 2012

    Regarding suppliers, I think the bigger casualties will be EMS. Winding down handset manufacturing and moving toward something else is big bucks, lots of capex

  277. ITempire
    June 21, 2012

    @ flyingscot

    Unfortunately, I see it the only way Nokia can take the share of the cake. By lowering down prices otherwise Iphone and other android products are just too attractive to users and they wont like experimenting with Nokia at similar prices

  278. Anand
    June 21, 2012

    @Junko , I agree with you. In India companies like Micromax and Carbonn mobile are competing with Nokia in low-end phones .

  279. FLYINGSCOT
    June 21, 2012

    So they need to compete in smartphones and are so far behind it will take a miracle to catch up unless they merge.  They could use their manf prowess but need a design partner

  280. Junko Yoshida
    June 21, 2012

    Chinese do love android phones…they are good looking, they don't necessarily look cheap, Chinese love feature-rich phones

  281. bolaji ojo
    June 21, 2012

    @Junko, Won't they instead then migrate towards iPhone rather than another untested Nokia program.

  282. Taimoor Zubar
    June 21, 2012

    @Bolaji: Even Samsung has gone for vertical integration. I think this may be a good reason behind success.

  283. mfbertozzi
    June 21, 2012

    @Bolaji: what about a merge involving Nokia and RIM? Maybe this step could interest several suppliers and several endusers.

  284. prabhakar_deosthali
    June 21, 2012

    Both RIM and Nokia has to create some new market may be not in mobile phones but may be in the uptapped huge internet of things market

  285. Junko Yoshida
    June 21, 2012

    but truth to be told, a lot of those good looking android phones'quality is less than optimal. some even said, if they had to buy the third phone (because the first two smart phones didn't work well) they should have bought iPhone in the first place

  286. Susan Fourtané
    June 21, 2012

    @anandvy: What do you think would make Nokia go back to its position in India and China? 

  287. Junko Yoshida
    June 21, 2012

    So, i definitely think there is room for Nokia to be really a quality leader in the android market

  288. Wale Bakare
    June 21, 2012

    @mfbertozzi, how possible do you think of that?

  289. FLYINGSCOT
    June 21, 2012

    Nokia and RIM merge….none have the correct design so it could be a disaster.

  290. bolaji ojo
    June 21, 2012

    I am trying to see a bright light here for suppliers to Nokia and haven't come up with one. Perhaps Microsoft will be a new market for them as it debuts the tablet PC, the Surface.

  291. Ashu001
    June 21, 2012

    @Junko-what were the key complaints Chinese users had wid their android phones? Too much choice? poor responses(touch)???

  292. Houngbo_Hospice
    June 21, 2012

    @prabhakar: Both RIM and Nokia has to create some new market “, easier said than done

  293. mfbertozzi
    June 21, 2012

    @p_d: are you meaning a merge involving these companies does make sense?

  294. Ashu001
    June 21, 2012

    @Flying Scot-Nokia+RIM=DOUBLE DISASTER!!!

  295. FLYINGSCOT
    June 21, 2012

    How is the MS Surface being received?  anyone know?

  296. Junko Yoshida
    June 21, 2012

    @tech4people, no…some of the android phones just don't work. the quality sucks

  297. prabhakar_deosthali
    June 21, 2012

    I am not saying merge. They have enough resources to work independently

  298. Adeniji Kayode
    June 21, 2012

    @junko,

    in summery, what do you think Nokia can do to really have a good standing all over again

  299. Anand
    June 21, 2012

    @Susan, I think it would be very tough for Nokia go back to its position in India and China. I think one of the option is to bring android based phones, because people here prefer android based phones.

  300. Nemos
    June 21, 2012

    @All please have in mind that before 3 years Nokia was at the Leading position in the Mobile Market

  301. Barbara Jorgensen
    June 21, 2012

    How can Nokia leverage its vertical integration? What would make feature phones better?

  302. Ashu001
    June 21, 2012

    @JUnko-But then for that u cant blame Android-Its the Hardware that sucks!Hope the chinese realize that!!

  303. Taimoor Zubar
    June 21, 2012

    @Junko: I agree. Android does have quality issues. I think at some point Google will have to put a restriction on what handsets Android can run. It can give a bad name to Android if the phone performance is very bad.

  304. Susan Fourtané
    June 21, 2012

    @anadvy: You mean Nokia-Android phones?

  305. bolaji ojo
    June 21, 2012

    @mfbertozzi, A Nokia-RIM merger won't make a difference to both companies and could even be problematic. I don't see it happening.

  306. Wale Bakare
    June 21, 2012

    @Adeniji good point.

  307. Ashu001
    June 21, 2012

    @All-I have seen some really amazing Android phones from Samsung and LG on the market today-The SIII is phenomenal!

  308. mfbertozzi
    June 21, 2012

    @WB: both companies need to increase business and are not in overlap of the market, currently they have quite complementary products, so a marge could automatically increase biz and new frontiers for suppliers too. They are only my thoughts….

  309. Junko Yoshida
    June 21, 2012

    @adeniji Kayode, first embrace Android; do a real quality mobile phone leader — especially in coutnries like China

  310. Anand
    June 21, 2012

    @Susan exactly.

  311. bolaji ojo
    June 21, 2012

    Okay, as we get to the end of this Live Chat, I would like to see if Junko has some concluding remarks related to the central question of this session: What impact will further deterioration in Nokia's market position mean for its suppliers and contractors?

  312. prabhakar_deosthali
    June 21, 2012

    Nokia should not try to follow . It should lead from the front with a totally new revolutionary idea , noy just follow Android. Create something different

  313. DataCrunch
    June 21, 2012

    Thank you Junko

  314. Junko Yoshida
    June 21, 2012

    @tech4people, the reality is that I also saw a lot of high-tech executives in China carry g=Samsung Galaxy for web surfacing and another android phone for talking

  315. Wale Bakare
    June 21, 2012

    @Junko, China is a big market but the country has so many phone makers. Any other targeting market for Nokia?

  316. mfbertozzi
    June 21, 2012

    @Bolaji: I see, thx, but I don't see other possibilities as well, by leaving each one alone.

  317. Ashu001
    June 21, 2012

    @Prabhar-Now surviving is the bigger issue.

  318. SunitaT
    June 21, 2012

    @Prabhakar its very difficult to innovate now…most of the innovation is factored in all the mobile handsets…

  319. Junko Yoshida
    June 21, 2012

    @wale…any BRIC countries would be great. seriously.

  320. Wale Bakare
    June 21, 2012

    @tech4people achieving that remains a big challenge.

  321. Barbara Jorgensen
    June 21, 2012

    Hi folks, I'd like to reiterate any closing remanks from Junko?

  322. Adeniji Kayode
    June 21, 2012

    @Junko

    how do you think Nokia can really lead in china when china already has lots of phones not only within but every part of the world

  323. prabhakar_deosthali
    June 21, 2012

    The way Apple transformed itself by siiting in the backgorund after trailing in PC market

  324. Ashu001
    June 21, 2012

    @junko-the BRICS hhv their own problems.I prefer taking on US market aggresively today.

  325. bolaji ojo
    June 21, 2012

    @mfbertozzi, My feeling is that RIM is looking at the end of the road. May not happen immediately but it will eventually.

  326. Junko Yoshida
    June 21, 2012

    My concluding remarks would be…unfortuatnely I don't see much bright side for suppliers…but I think if and when Nokia decides to move its business beyond conventional phones, that would be very interesting to watch…remember a lot of consumer devices we see on the market will inevitably be connected to Internet…

  327. Barbara Jorgensen
    June 21, 2012

    We are getting down to the wire. Readers, please contiue your discussions. I'd like to thank Junko on behalf of EBN.

  328. SunitaT
    June 21, 2012

    @tech but most of the consumption power is still not explored in BRIC nation

  329. Junko Yoshida
    June 21, 2012

    I am not saying that Nokia should be doing all this by itself…it shoud find a good partner

  330. SunitaT
    June 21, 2012

    Thank you Junko for the informative chat…

  331. Nemos
    June 21, 2012

    Thank you Junko.Bolaji,Barbara for all the informations , Thank you all for the questions

  332. Ashu001
    June 21, 2012

    thnx for sharing ur awesome wisdom wid us Junko!!

  333. Taimoor Zubar
    June 21, 2012

    @Junko: I agree with the remarks. However, if Nokia movies it's business to a new dimension, it may also have to engage new suppliers..that would be interesting

  334. Houngbo_Hospice
    June 21, 2012

    Thank you, Junko!

  335. Junko Yoshida
    June 21, 2012

    You are welcome. Boy this is really a high energy group!

     

  336. Wale Bakare
    June 21, 2012

    @tech4people you are right but US market only not enough. BRIC has major role to play in world economy today

  337. mfbertozzi
    June 21, 2012

    @Barbara/@Junko: final question – will Nokia suppliers impacted “flat” or suppliers from some specific region will be more impacted?

  338. bolaji ojo
    June 21, 2012

    Junko, You've been wonderful as usual. I hope we can invite you for some comments in the near future on the Microsoft Surface tablet. We would appreciate your insight into what it might mean for the company and its suppliers.

  339. Anand
    June 21, 2012

    Thank you Junko.Bolaji,Barbara, as always very informative

  340. Barbara Jorgensen
    June 21, 2012

    Junko–thanks, and we will continue to follow you at EETimes

  341. prabhakar_deosthali
    June 21, 2012

    Thank you Junko, Bolaji and Barbara

  342. Houngbo_Hospice
    June 21, 2012

    See you eveyone on the message board

  343. Junko Yoshida
    June 21, 2012

    @all, thanks for the invite. and it was truly fun.

  344. Wale Bakare
    June 21, 2012

    Thanks Junko and everyone. Bye!

  345. bolaji ojo
    June 21, 2012

    @mfbertozzi, The pain is being spread across its supply chain. Companies like Texas Instruments have taken their body blows and others are bracing.

  346. Susan Fourtané
    June 21, 2012

    @Junko:  Thanks you very much being here with us. I really enjoyed reading your thought. 🙂 I hope you will come here again.

  347. Barbara Jorgensen
    June 21, 2012

    Readers, with that, I'll thank you all for your participation.

  348. bolaji ojo
    June 21, 2012

    Thank you all and look forward to seeing you again on our next Live Chat.

  349. Susan Fourtané
    June 21, 2012

    @Bolaji, and @Barbara: Thanks to you both, too.

  350. Taimoor Zubar
    June 21, 2012

    Had a great discussion. Thank you for the insights, Junko!

  351. Adeniji Kayode
    June 21, 2012

    Thank you Junko,Bolaji and barbara.

    bye for now

  352. FLYINGSCOT
    June 21, 2012

    thanks everyone

     

  353. mfbertozzi
    June 21, 2012

    Thanks Junko/Bolaji/Barbara and thank you all. Looking fwd.

  354. Anand
    June 21, 2012

    Bye everyone…see you soon in next chat.

  355. Nemos
    June 21, 2012

    🙂

  356. Susan Fourtané
    June 21, 2012

    Bye Bye, everyone. 🙂 Have a lovely weekend. 

  357. Susan Fourtané
    June 21, 2012

    Hey, Nemos, still waiting your email

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